Easy/low cost 4x5 developing kit

mawz · Sep 29, 2007

I'm looking at getting into 4x5, shooting B&W architecture and the odd bit of landscape & still life. I've got a solid handle on the camera side of the gear equation, but I'm frankly baffled by the darkroom side of things.

Printing isn't an issue. I'll be doing the odd contact print but everything else will be handled by the darkside (scan & print).

Developing is an issue. I'm currently doing 120 and 35mm B&W in 2-roll plastic daylight tanks. My tank should hold a 4x5 neg, can I just curl the neg, slide it in the tank and develop that way? or am I going to need to get tubes and such. A daylight-safe developing setup is necessary as I only have light-tight loading, and do the processing itself in my kitchen. I'm also on a bit of a budget, so cheap solutions are preferred.

Most likely film/dev combo is FP4/Rodinal.

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 29, 2007

You could, but that's a lot of developer for one sheet.

Trays are the least expensive method, but tray processing requires a dark room, which you say you lack.

If you need a daylight tank, your best bet for a modern tank is probably the HP Combi-Plan tank. Personally, I like the stainless steel Nikor sheet film tank, which works like a normal inversion tank, but these are not easy to find. There is a Jobo reel that is similar in principle to the Nikor tank, but it holds 6 sheets, rather than 12, like the Nikor, and can be used in a Jobo inversion tank.

Avoid the Yankee tank--very few people get along well with it.

jeroldharter · Sep 29, 2007

I use a Jobo which is expensive. I am just starting to use the BTZS tube system. In fact, I am drying my test negatives to send back to the View Camera Store at this moment.

The tubes cost $120 which is not cheap but less than $3000 for a new Jobo. The tubes are well made and the system works very well. I will probably switch over from the Jobo for sheet film.

You could always try tray development which is the cheapest way to go but also requires practice to avoid scratched negatives which are very frustrating.

bdial · Sep 29, 2007

The Jobo tank does not require the Jobo rotary processor. You can either use it as an inversion tank, which uses considerable chemistry, or use it on a Beseler or Unicolor motor base. A tank and reel are about $65.00 us/can.

vanspaendonck · Sep 29, 2007

If you do not expect to develop more than 4 sheets at a time, you might consider the Paterson Orbital development tank. I use it for 5x7 (two sheets at a time) and I am very pleased with it. It uses ridiculously small amounts of chemicals and the optional motor base is very convenient. If you use a changing bag that is not too small, you can load the tank in that: it's extermely simple to load. Roger Hicks has more information and tips on this tank on www.rogerandfrances.com

As to the Nikor tank, my first an only experience was not so encouraging. I got underdeveloped square patches where the retaining ring (the strip you clip on the circumference of the cage after loading the sheets) touched the film. Somehow I can't get the sheets in all the way and/or they creep back to the outside of the cage during processing. Anybody has had a similar experience or knows how to deal with this?

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 29, 2007

If you hunt around, I've uploaded the instruction sheet for the Nikor tank as an attachment here. It will save a lot of trial and error experimentation. The sheets shouldn't slip out. To get them all the way in, the reel needs to be adjusted properly with about 1/16" of play for the sheets to slide in easily, and you should bend the sheets in the direction of the reel as you slide them in. If you do it right, you can get all 12 sheets in.

vanspaendonck · Sep 29, 2007

David A. Goldfarb said:
If you hunt around, I've uploaded the instruction sheet for the Nikor tank as an attachment here. It will save a lot of trial and error experimentation. The sheets shouldn't slip out. To get them all the way in, the reel needs to be adjusted properly with about 1/16" of play for the sheets to slide in easily, and you should bend the sheets in the direction of the reel as you slide them in. If you do it right, you can get all 12 sheets in.

Thanks David. I plan to shoot some 4x5 tomorrow (Crown Graphic, Schneider 90 mm, HP5+ and Tmax 100 in Grafmatics, PF-100 and #11 bulbs) and will try the Nikor tank again, this time very carefully. Attached is a crop from a picture I recently took of the Eifel Tower. It is the worst of the batch, but you see what I mean.

mawz · Sep 29, 2007

Thanks everyone. I'm going to look for the Jobo or Nikor tanks.

David A. Goldfarb · Sep 29, 2007

Another thing to be careful about is to load the sheets emulsion side in, and when you remove the wet sheets, take care not to scratch them. I lost a few that way first time as well.

keithwms · Sep 29, 2007

You want easy? Shoot polaroid type 55 while you still can! All you need is clearing bath, and you can do that with lights on. And you get a glorious negative

walter23 · Sep 29, 2007

Look at http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/

If you can find one of these it's a great way to process your film.

I paid about $75 or $80 on ebay for a whole bunch of stuff including a motor base for rotating, a 35mm film drum, a bunch of miscellaneous glassware, and most importantly the unicolor 8x10 print drum (the one you need for 4x5 film - it's got holder ridges 5" apart that you can slip film behind, and you can do 2 sheets at a time with ease or 4 if you can find some kind of separator device that works - I haven't yet).

It works great. The only thing that would prompt me to get something else would be the time it takes to do film 2 sheets at a time. I might get a nice tank or something for larger batches. For small batches, there's nothing better.

Uses about 175mL of chemistry (maybe less but I haven't pushed it), gives nice even development up to the edges, consistent results (the motor base ensures that - no variability from hand agitation based on how much coffee I've had or whatever), and is very easy to load even when wet (I load it in a dark closet as I don't want to stuff a dripping wet drum into my film changing tent).

fschifano · Sep 29, 2007

Polaroid Type 55 is certainly an easy way to get nice and relatively easy to print negatives. The drawbacks are that you need a special Polaroid back for the camera and that there are no options other than Polaroid Type 55. The holders can sometimes be found used for little money, and will fit any camera that takes standard 4x5 sheet film holders.But they are prone to wear and must be kept scrupulously clean. Any failure results in a waste of some very expensive film.

The best currently available daylight tanks for 4x5 sheet film are the Jobo and HP Combi Plan items. I can't comment on the Jobo tanks because I've never used one. The HP Combi Plan tank is not nearly as elegant, but it does work in its own clumsy way. It is my solution to the problem. Nikkor tanks and reels for 4x5 sheet film are difficult to find and are still fetching decent prices on the used market. These look like the most elegant solution of all.

Chaska · Sep 29, 2007

David posted the directions in a thread I started, may make searching easier. BTW, they do help because it explains the necessary adjustments for the different formats, 4x5, 9x12, packfilm, 3x4, 2x3, etc. I use it for 3x4 and love it.

amuderick · Sep 29, 2007

I use the Paterson Orbital. I don't have the motor base. It works like a charm. The amount of chemicals it uses are really miniscule. I scored the inside bottom like many other to prevent sticking. I can't imagine it getting much easier.

The motor base would save time (of me standing there rotating the thing) and effort. However, I hear that people get turbulence patterns on their negatives from the exact repeating motion of the motor base. If there is a solution to this problem I'd love to hear it. It would make the motor base worthwile.

vanspaendonck · Sep 30, 2007

Streaking seems to occur sometimes, but with 8x10 sheets only (according to Roger Hicks). I have so far only developed 5x7 and 4x5 and had no problem.
Possibly the edges of the smaller sheets create some turbulence in the liquid and thus a a more random flow. You need this turbulence because it prevents a too even flow pattern that may cause the streaking with single 8x10 sheets.
It's just my theory. What do other Paterson Orbital users think?

jolefler · Sep 30, 2007

Hey Walter - I have two methods of separating 4X5's in an Unicolor drum:

Some commonly available pencil erasers are elastic enough to be used repeatedly. I cut the normal sized ones in half, then use an Xacto or razor blade to cut the "V" (just cut a triagle into the eraser) to fit over the central divider/holder. Some additional trimming to fit the contour of the drum.

I used to use an old plastic film drying clip (clothespin type) which also worked...I abandoned this as I got nervous about any possible effects the galvanized metal spring might have on the chemistry in the developing process.

Jo

GeorgesGiralt · Sep 30, 2007

Mawz,
I use with very great results a Jobo 2551 tank and 2509 reel. I use it like a Paterson inversion tank.
It uses 1,450 l of chemistry to cover the 4x5 sheets but if you use HC110 or Rodinal, this is quite cheap.
If you prefer rolling your own, you better go for the larger version the 2551 which holds two 2509 reels and you can roll the tank on the Jobo 1509 support (quite cheap) by hand. This way you'll save on chemistry if not on aerobic or sports club fees.
I also own a Combiplan but was never been able to get good results with it. It leaks and if you invert the tank the sheets become loose and stick together. Friends of mine have good results with the Combiplan, so YMMV....
Bear in mind that you can find Jobo drums quite cheap second hand and that the 28xx series are same diameter and dimension as the 25xx corresponding tanks. The differences being the funnel replacing the beaker and the center core witch is not on the paper tanks. But these core and funnel are from the 15xx series... Standardization is key to success ! So if one day you plan to buy a Jobo processor to do E6 or larger format than 4x5 the Jobos are the way to go...

ricksplace · Sep 30, 2007

I have and use a combi-plan. There is a thread on here somewhere about some of the quirks of this type of tank. I like it and I get good, consistent results. Load it in your dark bag, turn the lights on and process your negs like you would 35mm in a daylight tank. I used this tank a lot before I learned to develop 4X5's in open trays without scratching them.

jeroldharter · Sep 30, 2007

I'm surprised that nobody else is mentioning the BTZS tubes. I just processed the step wedge test negatives, 5 of them, all for different development times simultaneously. Took me about 1 hour total. With my Jobo, that would have taken about 3 hours because all of the negatives must be processed for the same time and I would have had to do 5 separate batches. The BTZS tubes are easy to load and I have not had a single scratch in my first 17 sheets so far. Temperature control, although not as elegant as the Jobo CPP2, is easier than with a tank or roller drum. The tubes are very economical with developer. I am using TMAX RS developer diluted 1:9, only 60 ml per sheet of film. That means that a 1 liter bottle of developer will process 166 sheets of film which amounts to 10 cents per sheet (I need to get busy). I have not finished my testing phase or printed any of the negatives from the BTZS tubes yet, but I will probably switch to this system. A subtle benefit is that it is much quieter than the Jobo. Also, it is a bit more hands on without being messy or onerous.

rwyoung · Sep 30, 2007

You can make your own tubes like the BTZS ones from PVC. Will be a bit thicker and heavier than the BTZS ones. Don't use white PVC, get either black or gray. The caveat's are that you will need to spend a fair amount of time burnishing down edges so you don't scratch things and depending on the PVC itself, you might want to work under safelight with film in the tubes instead of lights on.

I made a set to use before I switched to a Jobo and was quite happy with them but the siren-song of the Jobo was just too much. I'm so weak!

eddie gunks · Sep 30, 2007

i use a "doran" daylight tank. i have had excellent results with it. no problems after 700 sheets of film. cheap ($25) and no need for a dark room.

good luck.

eddie

w35773 · Sep 30, 2007

I will also say that tubes of the btzs type are ultra cheap and very reliable if you make them yourself (not ultra cheap if you buy them from the view camera store, but still super). The plastic you want to look for is ABS. I just returned from a business trip where I loaded the tubes and did all the processing in my motel room with everything I needed carried in a small plastic grocery bag.

This system can't be beat, as far as I am concerned.

Regards,
Russell

Easy/low cost 4x5 developing kit

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