East Germany. Then and now.

AgX · Oct 15, 2017

"This photo gives me hope that things can be better when people are given freedom."

Why then so many towns in East-Germany become deserted as people have been leaving?
As with the unification so many jobs were lost and not replaced.

Slixtiesix · Oct 16, 2017

A very interesting debate! As somebody who was born in the former GDR and witnessed its vanishing and transformation during the very first years of his life, I can only reiterate what many people here have said so far: Yes, it was both a combination of WW2 bombings and subsequent neglect, the latter motivated by lack of building material as well as political/ideological reasons. Old architecture (may it be secular or clerical) had the least priority since it was associated with an imperialist/capitalist past. Instead of that, building blocks were the propagated way to live in the GDR (anyway, building blocks were common in W-Germany and the UK as well). It was especially during the 80s that this decline progressed rapidly. Surprisingly, at the same time, the GDR government decided to begin the restoration of some heavily neglected places, like the Gendarmenmarkt in Berlin, but these were rather isolated cases. After reunification, the restorations were partly subsidized by the state.

AgX · Oct 16, 2017

Concerning the "grey" GDR: I grew up in West-Germany and, at least to my memory, the plastered facades were grey too, at its best they were painted white, but there was no colour. There were a lot of brick facades, but they had blackened by then, In winter the air was terrible as most people around were still heating with coal. Often with brown-coal, just as in the GDR.

AgX · Oct 16, 2017

For new built houses in the GDR building blocks were a major approach, but also people were encouraged to build private homes themselves in cooperatives. Later the state even offered private homes from prefab parts.

blockend · Oct 16, 2017

Svenedin said:
Very interesting and nice photographs. I preferred the decrepitude. Many of these "restorations" look rather unsympathetic and I wonder how historically accurate they are. Restoration really needs to be done with a light touch.

Agreed. In every case the before shots were more interesting photographically.

Svenedin · Oct 16, 2017

blockend said:
Agreed. In every case the before shots were more interesting photographically.

Yes. The "restored" buildings just look very bland. Some of the building don't appear to have ever been painted so why it was deemed appropriate to paint them I can't fathom. I presume it was the usual rush job to tart the buildings up without the specialist skills to preserve their character and historic fabric.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 16, 2017

Now you can print your house!

Sirius Glass · Oct 16, 2017

Ko.Fe. said:
You can't be given freedom. You have to fight for it. And it is only freedom if it is religion free. Any religion is not a freedom.

Especially religious practices inflected on others that do not believe in that religious brand.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 16, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
Especially religious practices inflected on others that do not believe in that religious brand.

Slavery to a religion is not freedom. It's really an addiction. Too many Evangelicals have a binary worldview of the saved and the unsaved. Good and evil. The world is more complicated than that.

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 16, 2017

That was interesting. Thank you for posting. Photographically speaking, I preferred the before photos!

blockend · Oct 16, 2017

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Slavery to a religion is not freedom. It's really an addiction. Too many Evangelicals have a binary worldview of the saved and the unsaved. Good and evil. The world is more complicated than that.

As the Stasi would have assured you.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 16, 2017

blockend said:
As the Stasi would have assured you.

The only difference with freedom of religion is that people get to pick their poison

blockend · Oct 17, 2017

Mainecoonmaniac said:
The only difference with freedom of religion is that people get to pick their poison

I should be amazed that people conflate religious faith with communism that killed over 100 million people in the twentieth century alone, but experience suggests their distaste for the former allows them to see the latter as collateral damage in the war of ideas.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 17, 2017

blockend said:
I should be amazed that people conflate religious faith with communism that killed over 100 million people in the twentieth century alone, but experience suggests their distaste for the former allows them to see the latter as collateral damage in the war of ideas.

I don't at all. I used to work with a Ukrainian years ago and he's deeply religious. He lived in Soviet Ukrainian and he told me many stories how his family was persecuted while they lived there. His family was not a member of the Communist Party and his dad had problems finding work. They immigrated to the U.S. for religious freedom and better opportunities.

Though he left my department years ago, we're still friends. He's quiet about his religion. Working with him for years, I saw how his religion shaped his values. He walked the walked with his teachings of morality. We had many civil discussions about religion. As for me, I'm not religious. Despite the messiness from freedom of religion, it's way better than not having it.

I know I'm going to piss some people off, but his practicing his religious teaching is much different than American Evangelicals of constant proselytizing and chest beating.

blockend · Oct 17, 2017

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I know I'm going to piss some people off, but his practicing his religious teaching is much different than American Evangelicals of constant proselytizing and chest beating.

I certainly agree that any religious belief that blurs itself with politics, becomes politics, not religion.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 17, 2017

blockend said:
I certainly agree that any religious belief that blurs itself with politics, becomes politics, not religion.

Ah. This is the genius of separation of church and state. Here in the U.S. , we have the "Christian Taliban". The Evangelicals tell us how evil sharia law is and the United States should be a Christian country.

Sirius Glass · Oct 17, 2017

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Ah. This is the genius of separation of church and state. Here in the U.S. , we have the "Christian Taliban". The Evangelicals tell us how evil sharia law is and the United States should be a Christian country.

+1

Sirius Glass · Oct 17, 2017

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I know I'm going to piss some people off, but his practicing his religious teaching is much different than American Evangelicals of constant proselytizing and chest beating.

Some religions use Blue Laws to force their practices on people who do not like that flavor of religion. For decades the Middle Atlantic States forced stores to close on Sundays and blocked alcohol sales at restaurants.

Alan Johnson · Oct 17, 2017

Returning to East Germany, IIRC, then it used to produce the gear that was amalgamated to VEB Pentacon and now is no longer a player , but remembered .
A contradiction between its contribution to the film community and its political state.

blockend · Oct 17, 2017

Alan Johnson said:
Returning to East Germany, IIRC, then it used to produce the gear that was amalgamated to VEB Pentacon and now is no longer a player , but remembered .
A contradiction between its contribution to the film community and its political state.

Yes, the irony is the West was obsessed by technological innovation, much of which is old hat or land fill, while the Eastern Bloc were making some very solid gear, as well as a lot of crap. However I do think totalitarianism is too high a price to pay for interesting technology. Germany made some nice stuff in the 1930s and 40s, but it was built on the most dubious ideological conditions.

Nodda Duma · Oct 17, 2017

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Ah. This is the genius of separation of church and state. Here in the U.S. , we have the "Christian Taliban". The Evangelicals tell us how evil sharia law is and the United States should be a Christian country.

All Evangelicals are Christian, but not all Christians are Evangelical.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 17, 2017

Nodda Duma said:
All Evangelicals are Christian, but not all Christians are Evangelical.

Thank goodness!

AgX · Oct 17, 2017

Alan Johnson said:
Returning to East Germany, II
RC, then it used to produce the gear that was amalgamated to VEB Pentacon and now is no longer a player , but remembered .
A contradiction between its contribution to the film community and its political state.

I do not see a simple contradiction.
On one hand the socialistic shool system allowed a sociological wider share of students. What to me seems benefitial to innovation.
On the other hand the lack of flexibility in its economic control (including the dilemma to produce the same time for a socialistic and a capitalistic society *) tight Pentacon to limits that restricted them to make the best out of their outstanding position in all-Germany on a worldmarket becoming dominated by japanese products.
But with the advent of microelectronics inside cameras, even a more worldmarket oriented Pentacon likely would have got into trouble.

* The GDR once had to face a governmental statement "We do not build cars for playboys".

blockend · Oct 17, 2017

Some interesting stuff was made in the Soviet bloc, often for party officials not the general public. The Czech built Tatra 603, with its air cooled 3.5 litre rear engine among them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_603 . East German MZ motorcycles dominated their classes in motorsport before their leading rider defected with the plans, which laid the basis of the Suzuki's designs. Also the innovative Exacta cameras on which Josef Kodelka photographed the Prague spring invasion, which were smuggled to the West.

The best stuff were simple designs, well made. A lot were rip offs. Some were badly made copies or terrible designs. Russia in particular were content to keep manufacturing pre-WW2 German stuff indefinitely. By the 1980s most USSR stuff was poor. "The workers pretended to make things, and the government pretended to pay them", as one commentator noted.

BMbikerider · Oct 17, 2017

Quite a dramatic change.

I have only visited the old eastern Germany once and that was in 2003. Modernisation was well under way with extension of the A4 Autobahn and a lot of cleaning up taking place. The plastic bodied 2 stroke car the Trabant were still evident pumping out clouds of blue smoke. What I did notice was the state of the old run down local railway lines, the railway infrastructure was decrepit and looked as if it had already failed.

My actual intended destination was Colditz, the same one where the infamous prisoner of war camp was. Whilst the town centre was well cared for, it was obvious to us that the general sewerage system needed a massive update and modernisation. Passing a road level inspection cover all you smelled was raw sewage.

The residents whilst outwardly friendly, seemed to look upon us with a degree of suspicion.

What stood out was in a building not far from the castle which was ......a Harley Davidson showroom!

East Germany. Then and now.

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