E6: Pro Lab Variations

I used A&I in Hollywood for all my E6 film processing from around '07 to last December, when they abandoned E6 (and me). Since December, I've been sending all my E6 film to Dwayne's. There have been a few threads about Dwayne's but I couldn't find any recent ones. Overall, I found their customer service to be absolutely first-rate. They call me to confirm my weird address, they email me when they've shipped my film back to me, and their turn-around is fast! A&I always took forever, usually ignored my instructions, and were indifferent to me when I called or visited with concerns. I patted myself on the back for switching.

But after a couple of months, I kept feeling like there was something "off" with my slides from Dwayne's. Last night I sat down and compared the slides I've gotten recently from Dwayne's to the old ones from A&I (it didn't even occur to me to do this after I switched labs). I obviously can't do a direct A/B comparison, but there is a huge difference; I can tell which lab developed which slides just from looking at them.

I like the A&I slides a lot better, but I don't trust my judgment because I've come to expect a certain look from my film for so long. I don't have a scanner, but I wish everybody could see what I see. I've sent both labs a variety of film including Velvia 50, Fuji T64, and Ektachrome (both G and VS). For each type of film, the A&I slides are consistantly a tad "grittier". The contrast is higher and the colors are more vivid, but the dynamic range is narrower (as well as the exposure latitude). By comparison, the Dwayne's slides feel dull and lifeless, even the Velvia 50. I don't know if either lab's look is "correct", but they are markedly different from one another.

I shouldn't be surprised by my discovery, but I am. I'm not sure what my next step should be; the prospect of developing my own E6 fills me with dread, but I might have to learn.

A&I got rid of E6?????!!!!! Just checked and they have! They are already so expensive (and treat you like it is your privilege to be in there, their quality was all they had! I live in LA and have spent thousands with them. I am shocked...

North Coast Photographic Services does a great job, even if Ken Rockwell recommends them.

Although i'm based in the UK, i had a very similar experience finding a consistent lab. After trying five mail order pro labs for E6 development with Velvia 50, i encountered a variation in all the slides developed over a six month period. I could instantly recognise one in particular which always had a slight cyan cast everytime.

I'm guessing the E6 line was not kept in check daily with control strips etc. All the labs i tested after asking them directly, told me they used Fuji Hunt Pro 6 chemicals through there processors, and control strips on a daily basis! Each lab used dip and dunk processing.

I only trust one lab nowadays for E6 development. I wonder how long they will hold out offering this kind of service, as slow but surely there development volume per week is decreasing, and i gather this is important in keeping the processing line in check.

give Datachrome a try, they take mail-order, and walk-in orders

Rochelle(owner/operator) is a gem to work with, and all she does is E-6, so her business DEPENDS on accurate results

www.data-chrome.com

-Dan

" I'm guessing the E6 line was not kept in check daily with control strips etc. All the labs i tested after asking them directly, told me they used Fuji Hunt Pro 6 chemicals through there processors, and control strips on a daily basis! Each lab used dip and dunk processing."

It's just not enough to use control strips. It's also about how often, and their evaluation. After densitometry it will be clear whether the run is 'in control' or not and an experienced operator should be able to apply corrections if necessary. The 'gold standard' in E6 processing would be to run a control strip through line first thing in the morning before any customers work, measure it and plot - adjust run if necessary. Process customers films with further control strips at intervals during the day. Measure, plot and adjust. It's highly beneficial that densitometry takes place on-site, as this allows instant evaluation of the run. Some labs send control strips out to be measured and this delays things and means corrections aren't always applied in time.

Processing E6 'in control' is perfectly possible with a good understanding of 'the run' and what causes it to go 'off-line'. A good machine, such as a dip and dunk or roller transport are the most consistent - a rotary discard poor in comparison. Control strips and measurement on-site - not by a third party. A good 'run' in times of low throughput adds difficulty.

Neil Grant said:

" It's just not enough to use control strips. It's also about how often, and their evaluation. After densitometry it will be clear whether the run is 'in control' or not and an experienced operator should be able to apply corrections if necessary. The 'gold standard' in E6 processing would be to run a control strip through line first thing in the morning before any customers work, measure it and plot - adjust run if necessary. Process customers films with further control strips at intervals during the day. Measure, plot and adjust. It's highly beneficial that densitometry takes place on-site, as this allows instant evaluation of the run. Some labs send control strips out to be measured and this delays things and means corrections aren't always applied in time.

Processing E6 'in control' is perfectly possible with a good understanding of 'the run' and what causes it to go 'off-line'. A good machine, such as a dip and dunk or roller transport are the most consistent - a rotary discard poor in comparison. Control strips and measurement on-site - not by a third party. A good 'run' in times of low throughput adds difficulty.

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Yes of course well put. I didn't have the time to elaborate any further in my posting.

bishy said:

Although i'm based in the UK, i had a very similar experience finding a consistent lab. After trying five mail order pro labs for E6 development with Velvia 50, i encountered a variation in all the slides developed over a six month period. I could instantly recognise one in particular which always had a slight cyan cast everytime.

I'm guessing the E6 line was not kept in check daily with control strips etc. All the labs i tested after asking them directly, told me they used Fuji Hunt Pro 6 chemicals through there processors, and control strips on a daily basis! Each lab used dip and dunk processing.

I only trust one lab nowadays for E6 development. I wonder how long they will hold out offering this kind of service, as slow but surely there development volume per week is decreasing, and i gather this is important in keeping the processing line in check.

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I'm also UK-based. Which lab do you recommend?

coigach said:

I'm also UK-based. Which lab do you recommend?

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My own personal favourite from the labs tested was.... Peak Imaging in Sheffield. Although i'm interested to see North Coast Photographic's Services results this spring, in comparsion to Peak's. The Darkroom UK Ltd in Cheltenham offered a fine service also. I found Peak Imaging's results seemed a little more sparkling, if that's a way to describe what i was seeing!

Thanks. Will use for next E6 order.

jbwpro said:

A&I got rid of E6?????!!!!! Just checked and they have! They are already so expensive (and treat you like it is your privilege to be in there, their quality was all they had! I live in LA and have spent thousands with them. I am shocked...

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I was too, dude. I used to live right next to the Santa Monica branch (now closed); you had to elbow your way through homeless guys to get inside, and the chick at the counter would make you wait until she was finished hitting on Leica guy sitting on the couch. The things we put ourselves through for our art....

coigach, do you use dr5 for your b&w slides? Have you tried their E6 services?

I'm excited for DataChrome, I think I'm going to try them next.

LJSLATER said:

coigach, do you use dr5 for your b&w slides? Have you tried their E6 services?

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Yes, have used dr5 for b+w slides for years - superb processing. Perfect, clean over many 100's of rolls. I send bulk orders from the UK several times a year. Not used their E6 as it's not something I shoot much of, I might add a few rolls to my next order though.

Dont let the prospect of doing your own E6 fill you with dread. I too fell prey to the myth that slides are difficult to do at home, and sadly put off trying for many years. as I found out last Spring, it is EASY, FUN, and Inexpensive! Did I mention it is super easy?
Save yourself a LOT of money, say good bye to scrateches forever, and Hello to the best quality results you have ever seen, Free Push Processing, and instant feedback, almost as good as digital. Shoot a roll, and an hour later, you can see you gleeming results hanging from the kitchen doorway!
Order yourself either and Arista E6 Kit (get the Gallon version), or better yet, order the 5L Tetenal kit from either Maco Direct or Photo Impex out of Germany. The Tetenal kit, I have found to be better than even the Kodak kits (I have several 5L Kodak kits, sadly now discontinued). They truely have a capacity of 60 rolls (can actually do more than that), with fantastic quality. I was very suprised by this, as I started off using the Kodak kits, which are only good for approx 30-35 rolls before increasing contrast becomes a problem. Dont know how they do it, but not the case with Tetenal.

All you need are: a Peterson Hand Tank (approx 30-60 bucks), a digital cooking thermomemter, a digital cooking stopwatch, some empty water bottles for the chems,a styrofoam cooler with overflow holes poked near the top to serve as a temperature controlled water bath, a Tetenal Kit, and your kitchen sink! Very easy to do - simply fill the cooler with chem bottles in it with water around 45C, let the chems and water bath cool to 38C, then start processing. Only the first step is critical for temp. You can even be off half a degree or so, it doesnt matter. But the first few times, take your time, do it right, and wait until everything hits 38C before starting. The rest is suoper easy, and has a temp range of 35-40C, wich is automatically taken care of by the cooler.

Anyways, I rant. But really, it is super easy, you should give it a try.

I just noticed Blue Moon is now doing E-6 in house. They used to send it out.

http://www.bluemooncamera.com/E-6_Processing.php

I mailed two 35mm rolls to DataChrome on Monday and got them back on Friday (yesterday). One was Velvia 50 and the other was Ektachrome VS. I am very pleased with the results, and very relieved. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Dwayne's uses Kodak chemistry, and I think DataChrome uses Fuji chemistry (?). I assume A&I used Fuji chemistry also, since they used to sell a lot of Fuji films, and the slides I got from DataChrome more closely resemble my slides from A&I.

I suppose it partly comes down to personal preference. I've developed a taste for slides that "pop to the max" on the lightbox; it's my favorite way to view photos, even more than viewing prints (I have yet to invest in a projector though). My slides from Dwayne's just don't have the same impact on me, but I bet they'd be easier to scan or print.

pukalo, you do make home processing sound much easier than I thought, but for now I'm extremely satisfied with a five-day turnaround and less than $8 per roll. I will definitely refer to your instructions and advice if and when I try it out

process your own its not hard and then you have no one to blame but yourself! that and its just so rewarding

LJSLATER said:

I mailed two 35mm rolls to DataChrome on Monday and got them back on Friday (yesterday)....and I think DataChrome uses Fuji chemistry (?). I assume A&I used Fuji chemistry also, since they used to sell a lot of Fuji films, and the slides I got from DataChrome more closely resemble my slides from A&I.

....

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Rochelle(Datachrome's owner/operator) told me last week that she uses ONLY KODAK chemistry.

Its kinda funny, she told me on Wed(I was in there to drop off my own film) that someone had mentioned me recommending her services . The note was written in VERY SMALL text on a post-it note. Maybe that was you? Hope you liked the results, she's been spot-on with processing my stuff thus far!

-Dan

DanielStone said:

Rochelle(Datachrome's owner/operator) told me last week that she uses ONLY KODAK chemistry.

Its kinda funny, she told me on Wed(I was in there to drop off my own film) that someone had mentioned me recommending her services . The note was written in VERY SMALL text on a post-it note. Maybe that was you? Hope you liked the results, she's been spot-on with processing my stuff thus far!

-Dan

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Yes, that was me

Kodak chemistry, noted; I'll stop trying to guess how labs work their magic. I can just keep sending my film out and enjoy being surprised and delighted when it miraculously comes back with little pictures on it