E3 process?

Stephanie Brim · Sep 7, 2006

I got my Agfa camera from Evilbay today and found out that the shutter is stuck...no big deal. I can get that fixed. However, the exciting and rather cool thing is that there was a roll of film inside: Kodak E3 slide film. Does anyone know of a lab that still does this film or a place that I can go to get it developed? I'm excited to see what's on it.

raucousimages · Sep 7, 2006

Try www.rockymountainfilm.com

Dave Parker · Sep 7, 2006

rockymountainfilm.com is going to be your only chance..My god E3 is so freaking old, I would be surprised if there is anything left on the base to develop...be aware, rocky is darn expensive and it could be many months before they even run the film...

By the way, does it say E3 on the canister???? because up until the 70's I thought most slide film was a K process

Dave

Photo Engineer · Sep 7, 2006

Dave;

There was E1 (not named that - just Ektachrome process chemicals) in the 50s, and E2 and E3 in the 60s and 70s. Then E4 in the 70s and E6 in the 80s. The E1 and E2 ran at 75 deg F, the E3 and E4 ran at 85 deg F (IIRC), and E6 runs at 100 deg F.

I still have instruction sheets for all of them around here somewhere.

PE

Dave Parker · Sep 7, 2006

Photo Engineer said:
Dave;

There was E1 (not named that - just Ektachrome process chemicals) in the 50s, and E2 and E3 in the 60s and 70s. Then E4 in the 70s and E6 in the 80s. The E1 and E2 ran at 75 deg F, the E3 and E4 ran at 85 deg F (IIRC), and E6 runs at 100 deg F.

I still have instruction sheets for all of them around here somewhere.

PE

Hi Ron,

I was hoping you would post, going back that far is a bit beyond my expertice...

Hope things are well.

By the way, and I know your as busy as I am, but did you ever install your screen? and if you did what did you think of it?

Dave

Stephanie Brim · Sep 7, 2006

If I felt confident doing slide processing at home I'd actually buy some chemicals and try it, but I don't. I could have the one hour place develop it in C41, but I'm afraid that cross processing a film this old will ruin it. It may not come out anyway. I'll see what Rocky Mountain will charge me and weigh the cost VS reward thing.

Dave Parker · Sep 7, 2006

Your chances of getting anything worth while is virtually nill, you have to remember the millions of pictures and the few that really mean something...I would plan on at least $50 bucks from RMF and it could take a year or more.

Dave

Stephanie Brim · Sep 7, 2006

I don't just want to toss it, though. Hm. I suppose that I could pick up a color press kit from somewhere and do that...I may not get anything worth beans, but I'd at least have the peace of mind that I wasn't just going to toss a roll of film that could have something interesting on it.

Dave Parker · Sep 7, 2006

Stephanie, you have a PM

Dave

Stephanie Brim · Sep 7, 2006

Oh, and the shutter isn't stuck, I've found. The mechanism for setting it off is just off, but I can still trip the shutter. I have to figure out a way to get it back ON...then I'll have a camera that works the way it should. It isn't a pretty camera...there's some wear on the outside and it looks as though it spent some time around some water because it's rusted where you open the film door, but the bellows appear as new (almost, which means they've likely been replaced) and the lens seems to have no real marks on it at all. I paid about $14 for this camera. I think I got a bargain.

raucousimages · Sep 7, 2006

If I remember right E3 had some wierd steps like re-exposure to light and hardening of the emulsion. Not the sort of thing to be done at home. Also labs won't process E3 in E6 or C41 processors. They dont care about your film, They care about what non C41/E6 film will do to their chemicals. This is why some labs will not process film you bulk load yourself. E1,2,3,4,5 and 6 are not just refinements of the same process they are different processes.

MattKing · Sep 7, 2006

Photo Engineer said:
Dave;

There was E1 (not named that - just Ektachrome process chemicals) in the 50s, and E2 and E3 in the 60s and 70s. Then E4 in the 70s and E6 in the 80s. The E1 and E2 ran at 75 deg F, the E3 and E4 ran at 85 deg F (IIRC), and E6 runs at 100 deg F.

I still have instruction sheets for all of them around here somewhere.

PE

Stephanie:

If you want to see an example of E2 process work, check PE's gallery

Matt

Gerald Koch · Sep 7, 2006

I believe that the Dignan Newsletter, published during the 70's, gave the formulas for the various solutions used in the E3 process. The Newsletter is available on microfiche and could probably be gotten on interlibrary loan.

Photo Engineer · Sep 7, 2006

I just remembered that all of the E3 process chemistry (I think it is for E3 motion picture) is published on the EK web site as VNF3. You can look it up there.

Matt;

That is old stuff done in 1961 and 1962. The E2 is fading, but the E3 is holding up quite well.

PE

Photo Engineer · Sep 7, 2006

raucousimages said:
If I remember right E3 had some wierd steps like re-exposure to light and hardening of the emulsion. Not the sort of thing to be done at home. Also labs won't process E3 in E6 or C41 processors. They dont care about your film, They care about what non C41/E6 film will do to their chemicals. This is why some labs will not process film you bulk load yourself. E1,2,3,4,5 and 6 are not just refinements of the same process they are different processes.

One or more of the early processes used a chrome alum hardener for step 2 after the MQ developer.

If any of the earlier Ektachromes is processed in E6, the emulsion will come off the support and ruin the processing solutions.

If anyone is interested, I'll look these up after my workshop. I don't have time right now to do it.

PE

Helen B · Sep 7, 2006

E-3 and E-4 formulae are given in old BJP Annuals as well. If anyone is interested I could copy them. The E-4 formulae include some exotic ingredients but the lower temperature E-3 process is comparatively straightforward. The E-3 process will work for E-4 materials.

Best,
Helen

Photo Engineer · Sep 7, 2006

Helen B said:
E-3 and E-4 formulae are given in old BJP Annuals as well. If anyone is interested I could copy them. The E-4 formulae include some exotic ingredients but the lower temperature E-3 process is comparatively straightforward. The E-3 process will work for E-4 materials.

Best,
Helen

Yes, E4 used t-butyl amine borane as reversing agent, and a derivative of succinaldehyde as prehardener.

You can substitute a light re-exposure for the TBAB, and plain succinaldehyde for the special derivative.

The neutralizer used hydroxylamine sulfate. There is no substitute.

I'm not sure E3 will work for E4 products. The 'conventional wisdom' that I was taught was NO, but I never saw proof either way.

PE

Stephanie Brim · Sep 7, 2006

I suppose I'll just have to forget about it. Anyone want it to give it a go?

donbga · Sep 7, 2006

Stephanie Brim said:
I got my Agfa camera from Evilbay today and found out that the shutter is stuck...no big deal. I can get that fixed. However, the exciting and rather cool thing is that there was a roll of film inside: Kodak E3 slide film. Does anyone know of a lab that still does this film or a place that I can go to get it developed? I'm excited to see what's on it.

1) Keep the roll as is as a shelf piece.
2) Or throw it away and save your money, whatever was there is gone.

raucousimages · Sep 7, 2006

Won't Rodinol work????

Sorry, had to say it.

Good luck with the camera though. A lot of us have old rolls sitting on shelves.

cullah · Sep 7, 2006

Back in the '70's, I worked in a lab developing E-3, E-4, and E=6. E-5 was and I think still is for the development of some of the specialized ektachromes. E-3 was, at that point in time, a professional process. It gave much better results than E=4. I don't recall developing any 35mm ektachrome via E-3, only 2 1/4 through 8x10. It did involve a re-exposure with a 250 watt bulb. The E-4 used a chemical re-exposure instead. E-3 was a fine process. If I recall, E-3 and E-4 were in no way compatible, chemically. Possibly at different temps. as well. The film for E-3 was always marked as being professional. E-4 was a crap process. The chemicals were very dangerous and the processed film tends to fade in 5 to 10 years, even if it has been kept in the dark and seldom projected. E-3 is much better in that respect. E-6 is much better still. I remember Agfachrome and Kodachrome having better blacks than E-4. There were two bright spots vis the E-4 process: one was Infrared film and the other was named, I think, Photomicrografy film. It was ASA16 and needed some serious green/cyan filtration as well. It was a higher contrast than any other color trans film at the time. Popular or Modern Photography tested it as being sharper than Kodachrome II ! Alas, all those brittally sharp and marvelously saturated slides and 4x5 chromes are faded past use.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Sep 7, 2006

One other thing that may make this film worthless is the degradation of the layers. Old Ektachrome usually show a shift to the red because the cyan (I think) layer degrades faster than the magenta and the yellow one. I suppose that if it applies to developped film, it applies even more to undevelopped film? But as was pointed out, you might try to develop the silver only to have some kind of B&W neg.

Philippe-Georges · Sep 8, 2006

Stephanie Brim said:
I don't just want to toss it, though. Hm. I suppose that I could pick up a color press kit from somewhere and do that...I may not get anything worth beans, but I'd at least have the peace of mind that I wasn't just going to toss a roll of film that could have something interesting on it.

Who killed J.F.K.?

Good luck,
Philippe

PhotoJim · Sep 8, 2006

Film Rescue International in Canada will try to develop it as black-and-white negatives. That's your only reasonable hope at getting usable images. No charge if they don't get anything, but expensive if they do.

raucousimages · Sep 8, 2006

Film Rescue International? I love the name. I have a vision of a team of surgeons in a clean room removing the film from an old K-1000 as it sits on life support with a guy holding a tray standing ready to rush the recovered film to the darkroom.

E3 process?

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