E Mail alternative

BMbikerider · Oct 18, 2023

After being dropped right in 'it' by Microsoft Hotmail, I searched for an alternative (forget Google, Yahoo and all the other usual suspects) and I came across a relatively new E mail provider called 'Proton Mail' which is apparently based in Switzerland. It is semi free to use. One address is free, but if you need more than one, you have to pay a small amount for starting at 3.99 Euros per month. They seem to be quite progressive and one big advantage I saw when I read their background was they offer end to end encryption on all levels of usage.

Unlike the usual contenders they do not require all your personal information to register, almost up to your inside keg measurement Has anyone ever used them and if so what are the like? It seems a number of quite large companies use them.

Bushcat · Oct 18, 2023

It's been around for 10 years or so. It supports encryption, assuming your recipient does, too. You won't be able to download your past emails to a local account or backup without a paid subscription. It's based in Switzerland. It pretty much works as advertised.

ags2mikon · Oct 18, 2023

I have been using it for about 6 years. Works great.

Nopo · Oct 18, 2023

I have been using it for two years, they work as advertised. When I got the account I didn't have to give any personal data, they have a mobile app and free vpn for one device at a time.

Sirius Glass · Oct 18, 2023

You may be interested in yahoo.com

Steven Lee · Oct 18, 2023

I use Proton for throwaway addresses, but I don't recommend it for most people. It doesn't play nicely with the email ecosystem. This was done on purpose, by the way. Proton is designed that your mail is encrypted on their servers using the key derived from your password. Which means that even Proton themselves cannot access it. I salute them for building such privacy-focused system, but the flip side of this design is that you can't forward your mail anywhere and you cannot use your favorite email client with Proton. You have to use theirs and they aren't nearly as convenient or feature rich as other options.

Then you have advertisement-supported mega-corps like Gmail, Hotmail and others. Obviously, they should be avoided because of the inherent conflict of interest. Advertising companies like Google and Yahoo can't be trusted with our data. I moved off Gmail about 10 years ago.

But there is the middle ground: companies that play nicely with the email ecosystem, and also do not have privacy conflicts baked into their business model. I can recommend two:

Apple Mail. Fully compatible with any email client, comes with a decent web UI, nice calendar integration, and is backed by a company with fantastic security and privacy record. Also supports custom domains, if you want your own email like steven@lee.com
FastMail. Same as above, but more optimized for advanced users. FastMail is probably the most feature rich platform out there, comparable to Google or Outlook.

There's also Zoho Mail, but unlike other options above I have not used it personally and cannot vouch for it.

BMbikerider · Oct 20, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
You may be interested in yahoo.com

I already use a Yahoo address without difficulty, I needed a second as backup should the Yahoo one go down.

Nopo said:
I have been using it for two years, they work as advertised. When I got the account I didn't have to give any personal data, they have a mobile app and free vpn for one device at a time.

The lack of personal data was what caught my eye and have signed up for it.

I used the Hotmail account as a backup and when it threw all of its toys out of the pram and would not accept my password despite only being used with the same password an hour before. Trying to re-create a password using their 'forgotten' password link. only resulted in the screen being split in two halves with neither responding to anything and me going round in ever decreasing circles and getting nowhere. Oddly enough on my older computer it is still working OK (it still does) but on my partners computer the situation is the same as mine, and that had not been switched on for a couple of days.

I don't know about in the USA and elsewhere, but actually getting through to anyone in the Microsoft Ivory tower in UK to talk to a human for actual practical help you may as well talk to a tailors dummy.

koraks · Oct 20, 2023

BMbikerider said:
I don't know about in the USA and elsewhere, but actually getting through to anyone in the Microsoft Ivory tower in UK to talk to a human for actual practical help you may as well talk to a tailors dummy.

I worked in IT for 15 years or so. I don't think I ever had any conversation, let alone a meaningful one, with a Microsoft employee in those years. Well, apart from the occasional meeting you'd have in social situations. They made a point of not being approachable by end users and SME's. You only got to talk to them if you were a large corporate user. For help with Hotmail email, I think you're better off sacrificing a memory stick to a pagan deity at a local temple than to try and contact Microsoft with your question.

BMbikerider · Oct 20, 2023

koraks said:
I think you're better off sacrificing a memory stick to a pagan deity at a local temple than to try and contact Microsoft with your question.

That made me laugh out loud!

One of the senior officers in the force I worked for, retired after his 30 years and took a job with them as Chief Security Officer at their HQ. He left after a short while, perhaps a couple of years and he had a similar out look - and he worked for them!

Kodachromeguy · Oct 20, 2023

This is a pertinent topic because my email, operated by Yahoo, is a spam breeding ground. I mark at least 10 or 20 emails a day as spam, but still their software let's more through. Gmail filters much more effectively. I am looking for a replacement for both.

ags2mikon · Oct 20, 2023

Spam, if coated with fresh ground black pepper and fried it is good with eggs. Proton mail does a very good job with filtering out the spam and unwanted emails from "people" with deals to good to be true.

Nopo · Oct 20, 2023

koraks said:
I think you're better off sacrificing a memory stick to a pagan deity at a local temple than to try and contact Microsoft with your question.

As an IT service provider for 25 years in Argentina this is the best answer I have read, about trying to deal with Microsoft support.

Carlos

Nopo · Oct 20, 2023

BMbikerider said:
I used the Hotmail account as a backup and when it threw all of its toys out of the pram and would not accept my password despite only being used with the same password an hour before. Trying to re-create a password using their 'forgotten' password link. only resulted in the screen being split in two halves with neither responding to anything and me going round in ever decreasing circles and getting nowhere. Oddly enough on my older computer it is still working OK (it still does) but on my partners computer the situation is the same as mine, and that had not been switched on for a couple of days.

In the proton settings, you can configure two methods to restore lost access to your account, one is with the generation of a random phrase and the other with an alternative email, you can use both or just one.

Carlos

Sirius Glass · Oct 20, 2023

I use hotmail, gmail and yahoo. I use yahoo the least.

BMbikerider · Oct 20, 2023

Hot mail is in the domain of Microsoft and the less I have to do with that company the better. It is a Devil incarnate who thinks itself untouchable.
When I tried to access the Hotmail account after they failed to recognise it the provided me with a proforma that wanted so much personal information short of my inside leg measurement I chose to ignore them. MY next computer will be an Apple so I am rid of them altogether.

koraks · Oct 20, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
I use hotmail, gmail and yahoo. I use yahoo the least.

I think for those concerned with privacy and market forces, those are the top 3 to avoid at all costs.

Sirius Glass · Oct 20, 2023

koraks said:
I think for those concerned with privacy and market forces, those are the top 3 to avoid at all costs.

I agree with that. I can only state what I use.

Pioneer · Oct 20, 2023

I really like protonmail and their privacy protection is terrific. But at my age forgetfulness is a real thing.

Do not forget your password!

Hassasin · Oct 20, 2023

Check out Tutanota.com too. Have switched several months back. Also have protonmail, but may not continue with it. the difference between these two; Proton as bound by Swiss law to look into your subject line, whereas Tuatnota is totally unable to see it. How long will that last? No idea. But frankl;y I prefer web based and application of Tutanota to Proton.

Correction: Proton is required by Swiss law to reveal your email subject lines in case there is investigation, this what Tutanota, based in Germany, will not do (thus far that is)

Hassasin · Oct 21, 2023

One service I forgot to suggest is fastmail.com. Another paid service that has been in business for long years. As Tutanota and Proton. I used it for as long as they've existed, but had to switch early this year for different reasons. It's reliable, they keep up with latest in security. All these 3 are in email business, by as pure a standard as one can think of. They do not sell used cars.

Alan Edward Klein · Oct 21, 2023

If you're not interested in encrypting every email and message, couldn't you just use a local encryption app for the email you want to protect and make sure the recipient can decrypt it? Which app would you use?

Hassasin · Oct 21, 2023

@Alan Edward Klein

I

These services do not require encryption on every email, but it's simple to do so if needed. Besides, they all come with perks, some with significant ones.

Tutanota for $8 a month gives 500GB of storage, Proton has great VPN included in paid deals, they all have multiple/unlimited domains within (so you can set up your add-on email addresses to hide your main one from the public at ease), Proton has family program, which is what drove me to them at first, but then it's to me too much of a package for too much money (6 individual accounts for $20 a month with 3 TB of shared storage, I wish they had a deal with 3 accounts with say 1TB of storage, obviously for less).

Patrick Robert James · Oct 21, 2023

Get your own domain and you can do whatever the hell you want.

Steven Lee · Oct 21, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
If you're not interested in encrypting every email and message, couldn't you just use a local encryption app for the email you want to protect and make sure the recipient can decrypt it? Which app would you use?

Almost any email client will do. There are two common standards for encrypting email messages: S/MIME and PGP. Apple Mail can do it. Click "help" and type "Encryption" in the search box to see the instructions. On Windows, you can use Outlook or Thunderbird. There are numerous other options.

Hassasin · Oct 22, 2023

There is a major difference between encrypting through an app, while still using standard service, and one that is truly encrypted. With mentioned providers, i.e. Proton / Tutanota, encryption key is NOT stored on providers' servers, they cannot unencrypted (or see) sent message, even if they tried. Gmail and others will see that if they wants to look at it, they do not provide that level of privacy (not to mention, tracking everything else user is doing while logged in.

What I mentioned above about Proton, there was a criminal case in Switzerland, when Proton was asked to provide information by authorities, and that eventually lead to Swiss law dampening privacy protection, by enforcing subject lines of emails to be viewable by provider.

Does it matter to anyone? Proton will have to see court order to show those lines, so not many will be concerned about that part anyways.

E Mail alternative

BMbikerider

Bushcat

ags2mikon

Nopo

Sirius Glass

Steven Lee

BMbikerider

koraks

Moderator

BMbikerider

Kodachromeguy

ags2mikon

Nopo

Nopo

Sirius Glass

BMbikerider

koraks

Moderator

Sirius Glass

Pioneer

Hassasin

Hassasin

Alan Edward Klein

Hassasin

Patrick Robert James

Steven Lee

Hassasin

E Mail alternative

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency