E-6 stabiliser with B&W films?

[Stan160]

Ever since starting to process my own B&W films, I've had problems with drying marks on the processed films. Tried all the suggestions about using distilled water, etc. Ilfotol reduces the problem, but doesn't completely remove it.

Today was the first time I have tried home E-6 development, using a Tetenal 3-bath kit. Results: 6 35mm and 2 120 films processed perfectly without a single drying mark.

I see that Tetenal stabiliser bath is available separately from the kit. Very tempted to buy some as a final treatment when processing B&W films, but before I do: Is there anything in the stabiliser that would harm the film?

Thanks,
Ian

 

[Photo Engineer]

Color stabilzer will not harm B&W film, but B&W wetting agents can harm color film.

PE

 

[nworth]

E-6 stabilizer is just a wetting agent (like PhotoFlo) and formaldehyde, which stabilizes the dyes and hardens the emulsion. I use a non-hardening fixer, and I frequently use old E-6 stabilizer or a homebrew equivalent as a final rinse after washing black and white films, especially sheet film and things like EFKE films which are not as hardened as Kodak or Ilford. It seems to work, and the wetting agent does help with the drying marks.

 

[Photo Engineer]

nworth;

The current E6 stabilzer is photo flo + a proprietary sulfur containing bacteriostat / fungicide. The E6 pre-bleach contains a formalin derivative that stabilzes the dyes. The current E6 stabilzer and C41 stabilzer are much alike in that sense.

The old E6 stabilzer can be used with modern films and all versions of E6 films can go through the E6 process, but this is not true of C41. In that case, old and new films must go through the right stabilzer.

In all cases, the old and new color stabizers can be used for B&W films, but no B&W final rinse can be used for a color film.

PE

 

[2F/2F]

"The old E6 stabilzer can be used with modern films and all versions of E6 films can go through the E6 process, but this is not true of C41. In that case, old and new films must go through the right stabilzer."

What happens if you process a current color neg. film in old "Flexicolor stabilizer III and replenisher" as opposed to the current "Flexicolor final rinse and replenisher"?

How old is "old"? How new is "new"?

Inquiring minds with fridges and cabinets full of both "old" and "new" chemicals, film and paper want to know....

Thanks.

As for the original problem, I would also focus on figuring out what is wrong with your Ilfotol before just switching to something else. It works fine in my experience, it is much cheaper, and is designed specifically for the task. Have you tried wiping the Ilfotol off your film with a photo wipe, or shaking it off as much as possible with the film still on the reels? Have you tried a "proper" drying cabinet, or homemade equivalent?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Neither Kodak nor Fuji told us when they changed, they just did. All current products can go through the old stabizer, but no old product can go through the new stabilzer.

That is all I know. For safety, with lots of old film, I would use the old stabilizer III. I stock both.

PE

 

[2F/2F]

Thanks for putting my mind at ease. I have been using Stabilizer III exclusively for everything C-41 for at least a year now. I was given a bunch of decade-old chems by a small lab that turned b/w only, and they seem to work fine.

Once my stash is gone, are there any options for a stabilizer for older films?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Yes, mix Photo Flo 200 as directed and add between 3 and 10 ml/l of 37% formalin to this solution. This is a close replica of the original formalin stabilzer. Photo Flo 600 can be used, but is far more toxic due to using ethylene glycol instead of propylene glycol, but with formain in there, who cares.

A substitute for any of these is given in one of my patents and is used in the E6 pre bleach, but the formaldehyd-bislufite adduct is hard to get on the open market nowdays.

PE

 

[Stan160]

I'll use the left over stabilizer as an experiment on a roll of B&W then.

I've tried just about every recommendation and combination of wetting agent dilution, sqeegee with a a variety of hard/soft things or not, hanging in a warm humid place, warm dry place, cool place, distilled water etc. etc. Not tried a drying cabinet, although building one is on my todo list.

I was just amazed earlier that after 1 min in the stabiliser, shake the reel a couple of times, then simply hang to dry in the dark room, there is not a single spot on any of the eight colour films. Don't understand it, if stabiliser is essentially just wetting agent, but if it gets me unmarked negatives I'll use it!

Thanks,
Ian

 

[Erik Ehrling]

Hi!

I have had quite similar experiences when fighting against dry marks on my bw negatives. What has worked best for me so far is to wipe the non-emulsion side dry with a clean cloth when I hang the negs up for drying. I know that this is against common sense that you should not touch the negs, but I have found that the non-emulsion side is not at all as sensitive as the emulsion side. And I have had no problems with scratches whatsoever.

Left on my todo list is to test various brands of distilled water as I think that the one I am using currently is not clean enough. I have also had plans for building my own film dryer for some time. Maybe I should add trying some E6 stabiliser on bw film to the list? (Have not been brave enough to try E6 processing at home yet, so I would have to order the stabiliser separately.) Will be very interesting to hear what your results are!

Regards,
Erik Ehrling (Sweden)

 

[Philippe-Georges]

With Agepon and B&W film, I had drying marks in the drying cabinet with heating on, thus to fast and warm drying. But, I started to use SISTAN as a final bath, at a higher dilution (in distilled water) than recommended, and no heating, no marks and no crystallisation of the Sistan chemicals.

Rollei has a so called super wetting agent, the RWA12, I never used it but I have read about it and it seemed to be very good, worth to try?

Good luck,

Philippe

 

[argus]

With Agepon and B&W film, I had drying marks in the drying cabinet with heating on, thus to fast and warm drying. But, I started to use SISTAN as a final bath, at a higher dilution (in distilled water) than recommended, and no heating, no marks and no crystallisation of the Sistan chemicals.

Rollei has a so called super wetting agent, the RWA12, I never used it but I have read about it and it seemed to be very good, worth to try?

Good luck,

Philippe

Philippe,

I let my films drip for about 10 minutes in the drying cabinet before turning on the heater. No marks at all with a final rinse in Amaloco WA and distilled water.

G

 

[AgX]

2F/2F,

Kodak said about their new Flexicolor Final Rinse (which substitutes their formaldehyde containing Flexicolor Stabilizer bath:

"Do not process films of older design that require a stabilizing agent for image stability.

These films are KODAK VERICOLOR III Film, VERICOLOR Slide Film / SO-279/5072, and VERICOLOR Print Film 4111.
Process these films only in a processor that uses FLEXICOLOR Stabilizer III and Replenisher.

Films of more recent design, such as KODAK GOLD, MAX, ROYAL GOLD, PROFESSIONAL PORTRA, PROFESSIONAL EKTAPRESS, and PROFESSIONAL SUPRA Films require no stabilization for image stability."