dust on film

severian · Jan 7, 2006

I seek your collective wisdom,
I have never solved the problem of dust getting on sheet film. The problem is probably not totally solveable but perhaps somebody has come up with an ingenious method of keeping dust off the film when loading. My procedure is to clean the film holders ofcourse. I use canned air and a mini vac. When they are cleaned they are immediatley put in large baggies(8x10 film) and sealed. I then go into the bathroom,now don't laugh, and turn on the shower to steam up the room. It doesn't take more tha a half minute. When the steam clears I go in and load the holders, which immediately go back in the baggies. When shooting the film never leaves the baggies until immediately before insertion in the camera. Dirty negatives must be the result of my body chemistry or aura. Maybe I'm just like Pigpen in Peanuts. A cloud of dust just follows me around. Doe's anyone load holders in one of those little tents? is it effective? I've thought of trying one of these machines that hermetically seal food in plastic. You know, the one that allows you to seal a pice of meat so thoroughly that it will last for a decade. Does anyone use this thing for loaded holders?

Jack

colrehogan · Jan 7, 2006

I load my holders in tents all the time. I keep the tents clean and before I load the holder in the camera, I check the holder for dust on the outside. Have you vacuumed the inside of your camera? You might be surprised how much junk accumulates inside it.

David A. Goldfarb · Jan 7, 2006

Some dust just turns out to be dandruff, so I wear a hat when loading.

I also like the Kinetronics 4" antistatic brush for cleaning holders.

Jerry Thirsty · Jan 7, 2006

Instead of using regular zip-lock bags, I use StratoGrey anti-static bags.

http://staticbags.com/

I think it helps, although I've never done a scientific comparison.

jeroldharter · Jan 7, 2006

I would question the minivac. Vacuum cleaners in general stir up dust IMO. The filters are always dirty and the vacuum vents into the same room you are trying to clean. The do lessen and redistribute dust but they get more dust airborne which is a problem for film loading.

We have a central vacuum system in our home. When I vacuum the darkroom I can use the little round brush attachment and vacuum counter tops, the enlarger itself, etc. and the dust is taken out of the room itself before being filtered and diposed of.

I use an air compressor to dust off the film holders just before loading them. I blow the air in the direction of another part of the room. I found my air compressor for $40 on Ebay but you can buy them at Cabela's for $135. Pretty expensive but if you think about 8x10 sheets of film, that is reasonable.

Dead Link Removed

I then load the film (4x5) and put the loaded film into cordura pouches that hold 6-7 fim holder. Haven't had any dust problems.

David A. Goldfarb · Jan 7, 2006

Jerry Thirsty said:
Instead of using regular zip-lock bags, I use StratoGrey anti-static bags.

http://staticbags.com/

I think it helps, although I've never done a scientific comparison.

That's an interesting idea. One issue with regular Ziplok bags is that they can generate a static charge when the holder is pulled out of the bag, attracting dust, which is why I don't use Ziploks, though I have friends who swear by them.

I've taken to keeping my holders in cases to keep out the dust.

langedp · Jan 7, 2006

I do pretty much the same as others have stated. A central vac system is a big help when cleaning the holders. Zip lock bags work fine. One extra step I take when loading is to use a can of compressed air to blow any dust off the film right before I put the dark slide in. Make sure you keep the can upright so you don't get any liquid coming out. With a little practice it works well.

jp80874 · Jan 7, 2006

Jack,

How does the problem manifest itself? At what point are you aware there is dust and are there any clues in how it looks? For instance the moisture step in the bathroom is an interesting twist. Does the dust show as a defined spec on the negative or print or is there a poorly defined ring around the spec? If there is a ring it might indicate the dust drew in the moisture and then the moisture later dried on the film still clinging to the spec. What are the symptoms?

A caution about air compressors. Most that I have used generate moisture and suck in dust while gathering air to compress. Filters are available, but I think it would take a very good filter ($) to eliminate those problems. My compressor in the garage occasionally spits oil, dust and moisture together. And you thought you had a problem before.

John Powers

eumenius · Jan 7, 2006

Hm, the dust problem was always nonexistent to me - my darkroom is located in the basement, and no one except me is going there. The fine dust gets in, but that requires time... I've never had dust issues with my LF film, that's strange - and I load it without big precautions, though I blow the surface of film in holder with a burst or two of air from a rubber enema ballon with its end cut off and tube ~0.5cm in diameter inserted. Antistatic brushes help very much, but the main thing is not to brush the film itself with the brush on

Quinten · Jan 7, 2006

Okay don't laugh: I usually pay attention to the cloths I wear, specially in winter you tent to wear clothes that give off some dust, clothes that generate static energy are bad as well, since the neg and holder will become static with you and attract dust.

Dry air is bad as well, try to keep the air in the darkroom a little moisturized (I am not talking rainforest climates but just get rid of the dry air.)

Than a compressor, wich has a downside as well: blowing air over the neg will give it a bit of static energy attracting the dust particles. The best is to keep the invironment dust clean, no carpet etc etc.

Best of luck!

Robb Scharetg · Jan 7, 2006

Hi

In 15 years of shooting large format sheet film I've only had one bad experience with dust. This was when I was an assistant 18 years ago, happened while loading in an overly anal retentive photographer's studio darkroom. We ended up with dust on about 30 of the 50 sheets. Never figured out the cause . . .

Anyhow, I use a Harrison tent weekly on location or load in film labs when I have the chance. Usually though its either in the hotel at night or sometimes in the middle of a shoot at lunch. After downloading I take the holders, blow them out with canned air, wipe them down with an Ilford anti-static cloth (both the holder and the slides, put the slide in the holder, close it and make a pile in the tent. When they're all ready to go I just put the box of film in, zip up the tent and then WASH my hands. Dry them well and then load. Loaded holders go into a large pelican case that we work out of. End of day-download and repeat. No dust. Might be the anti static cloth?
Usually a couple hundred sheets a month without problem. If you can't figure out the cause there are always ready loads (assuming it's 4x5).

Good Luck

Charles Webb · Jan 7, 2006

Wow, everybody has pretty well covered the bases! Over the past 50 plus years I haven't had a great deal of dust problems when loading or unloading.

Mine all have come when using a dark tent or or the old T bag thingie. They
need to be cleaned frequently. The simple act of putting your hands into the sleeves seems create or stir up a cloud inside the tent or bag. Loading in the dark room has never been a problem as I keep the dry side pretty clean and ground everything to a cold water pipe. To kill static don't brush the negative unless the metal carrier is grounded. I simply hold it against the grounded pipe and with a baby ear syringe (squeeze bulb) gently blow off the surface of the negative. I never use glass neg carriers as they are dust magnents for me. I believe static is the number one contributer!

Charlie....................

Papa Tango · Jan 8, 2006

Dont forget the camera...

Yeah, aint it great. The best shot of the outing, and a big squiggly dust fibre right in the middle of the most observable part of the neg. Two areas can thwart the best anti-dust measures. The first one is the bellows of the camera. Remember to periodically extend the bellows all the way out and blow out anything that may be in the folds or corners. Pulling out a darkslide can create a static charge that sucks stuff in the camera backwards to the film.

The second part are the light seals for the darkslide. All the blowing and sucking in the world will not get rid of something that is pinched between them. Load film, push the slide forward, and instant junk transported across the film. I usually shove the slide in and out a couple times whilst blowing the inside top of the holder out.

lee · Jan 8, 2006

I sometimes think that the more you worry about dust the more you get. It must be said that I do all the things mentioned in the thread above too. and i shoot multiples of the same shot

lee\c

avandesande · Jan 8, 2006

Anyone try working in front of a HEPA filter?

jp80874 · Jan 8, 2006

Lee,

It is a known fact that worry creates static electricity. It has to do with the pacing.

John worry wart Powers

Papa Tango · Jan 9, 2006

jp80874 said:
Lee,

It is a known fact that worry creates static electricity. It has to do with the pacing.

John worry wart Powers

And dont forget head scratching and hair pulling. Thats where all that dandruff David gets on his film comes from...

John Kasaian · Jan 9, 2006

Have you tried pulling(unsrewing usually) the ventilation registers off in your dark room and giving a look inside? Is there any accumlation of dust? Maybe you'll need you ductwork cleaned. Conversely, when was the last time you changed your heating/cooling pads?

Where and when do your holders pick up dust? When you're loading? Or unloading? Or shooting?

The felt traps are kind of like dust magnets. I use a shop vac(lots more suction than the mini vac) and a micro attachment and give the felts a good bit of attention when cleaning. You could try that and see what happens.

I've been told that a llittle humidity in the air will keep dust at bay. If you load in a bathroom, you might try running a hot shower to add some humidity before a loading session to see how that works out for you.

Good luck!

carsten · Jan 10, 2006

I realised that pulling out and back the dark slide in the holder attract dust.
It is a sort of "pumping" movement that sucks air (I apologies for the "mauvais gout" of my sentence.)
So when your holder is ready for shooting set in your camera gently pull the dark slide out, shoot, and gently push it back. Quick movements attract dust.

Bruce Watson · Jan 11, 2006

Dust is a pain, I'll grant you that.

What I do is load in my darkroom, which is clean. As in, I take everything out at least twice a year and use a damp sponge to clean every surface - ceiling (you'd be surprised), walls, shelves, under shelves (very surprised), doors, etc. It also has an electrostatic air cleaner running most of the time - I turn it off when I need total darkness (damn LEDs).

I clean my film holders with an anti-static brush. Clean both sides of the dark slides, the film guides, the light trap, all of it, with just an anti-static brush. All away from where I'm going to be loading. And I leave the darkslides in the holders - I don't stack them separately. That way dust doesn't fall on the inside while they are waiting to be filled.

Then I stack the film holders on the table, put the fresh film box on the table, and lights out. I open the film box, and make sure the film is emulsion side down - so that any dust that falls out of the air while I'm working falls on the back of the film. I pick up the film a sheet at a time, flip it over, shove it in the film holder and slide the darkslide home as close to a single motion as I can. Flip the holder over and repeat for the other side. Stack the filled holders in a known clean corner.

When I'm done I close up the film box, turn on the lights, and immediately start loading the film holders into zip lock bags. The only time film holders aren't in zip lock bags is when they are being unloaded/cleaned/reloaded. I don't reuse the ziplocks either - my wife uses them for sandwiches.

Using this method I get very little dust on my film prior to exposure.

In the field I follow a similar method using a Harrison pup tent (swab out the tent with a moist towel the night before you use it so it can dry out - every couple of days). This method works for me even in the arid desert southwest which is supposed to be dust city. At least it worked until I said that ;-)

raucousimages · Jan 11, 2006

The best things I have done are.

1) put an orec brand air filter on a shelf in the darkroom and let it run on low 24/7
2) always wear clean clothes (I am also a carpenter so work clothes would kill a clean room)
3) sealed the concrete floor and vacuum it each day I use it
4) I have very long hair, sort of the neighborhood geriatric hippie so I wear paper hairnets called bouffants. (just think of a lunch lady) from a restaurant supply.

dust on film

severian

colrehogan

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

Jerry Thirsty

jeroldharter

David A. Goldfarb

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langedp

jp80874

eumenius

Quinten

Robb Scharetg

Charles Webb

Papa Tango

lee

avandesande

jp80874

Papa Tango

John Kasaian

carsten

Bruce Watson

raucousimages

dust on film

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