Durst M700 conversion (if possible)

[joesh]

I seem to have a M700 with a Durst CLS 66 Color Head which I bought for a few euros - I haven't go round to buying a new light bulb, but everything is there, so I imagine it's worthwhile doing up. However, because I suspect that there's no real need (in this day and age) for a colour head (I've already got hand held Ilford filters that I use), I'm wondering if (and how) I can reconvert it back to a simple light bulb system.

Thanks in advance.

 

[koraks]

Welcome to Photrio!

Yes, you can swap out the color head for the regular B&W one. You just have to find the right part; it's a reasonably common enlarger in Europe so it shouldn't be too hard to find someone selling the right part. Try here: https://www.ebay.nl/str/qoppacollectables He's got lots of Durst stuff and by far not everything is listed. It's almost certain he has a B&W head for the 700.

 

[joesh]

Okay, that's interesting. However, I see that replacement parts are in the hundreds of euros, and I see (in my part of the world) I could buy something like a M370 complete and working with lens, timer etc for 100€ (plus some extra for a 6x6 adapter).

Which would be more interesting, as paying a lot of money for something I only paid 10€ when I could just buy something else, seems maybe counter productive?

 

[koraks]

Well, in your place, I'd just use the enlarger the way you got it. You don't even need the Ilford filters since the color head can be used for VC paper just fine. Magenta for high contrast, Yellow for low contrast. There's plenty of info on this online; give it a try.

 

[joesh]

Well, in your place, I'd just use the enlarger the way you got it. You don't even need the Ilford filters since the color head can be used for VC paper just fine. Magenta for high contrast, Yellow for low contrast. There's plenty of info on this online; give it a try.

Yes, I guess you're right.

However, I have to first find a halogen bulb to see if it all works. In fact that's really the first step as the enlarger is in okay condition, but hasn't been used for 20 years. I'm hoping the power supply is working correctly, which will mean that the rest should be easy to get back in place. I'm not sure if it's the original/original lens, but it has a schneider-krueznach 80mm lens (1.5 if I remember correctly), and lastly the original timer which definitely works.

As for the paper, I'm hoping to continue with my Ilford MG!

 

[choiliefan]

If your bulb doesn't light, check the switch(es) on the power supply.
I bought a machine with color head which wouldn't light so remembering a lesson an electronics guy taught me years before, I examined the internals of the switch and found gummy green oxidation on the brass contacts.
Cleaned those up and voila, we had light!

 

[MattKing]

I prefer the light from a diffused source like the colour head to a mostly non-diffused source like a condensor head.
And at least over here, it is far easier to find the halogen bulbs than an incandescent bulb set up for an enlarger- e.g. with no printing on the bulb where you don't want it.
Your Ilford filters will, of course, work fine with the colour head. But I prefer using the adjustments on a colour head to emulate them.

 

[januaryabc]

I seem to have a M700 with a Durst CLS 66 Color Head which I bought for a few euros - I haven't go round to buying a new light bulb, but everything is there, so I imagine it's worthwhile doing up. However, because I suspect that there's no real need (in this day and age) for a colour head (I've already got hand held Ilford filters that I use), I'm wondering if (and how) I can reconvert it back to a simple light bulb system.

Thanks in advance.

Isn't that the cls66 color head only fit M601 and the color head compatible for M700/800 is cls70/80? Do you mind showing us a photo on how cls66 fit your M700?

 

[joesh]

Isn't that the cls66 color head only fit M601 and the color head compatible for M700/800 is cls70/80? Do you mind showing us a photo on how cls66 fit your M700?

I can put a photo here, but I suspect it's me who's made the mistake, it must be a cls70/80, I hadn't seen that mistake. I quickly browsed the web to find out what it was I'd bought and assumed the colour head was cls66, because that's what came up.

 

[grain elevator]

Buying an entire enlarger tends to be easier and often cheaper than individual parts... I suggest you do that if you must have a condenser enlarger and no head comes your way. But why not give to diffusion head a go?

 

[joesh]

Buying an entire enlarger tends to be easier and often cheaper than individual parts... I suggest you do that if you must have a condenser enlarger and no head comes your way. But why not give to diffusion head a go?

Yes, indeed I'll do that, but I might also buy the other - if it's still there - as I can always build this one up bit-by-bit.

 

[ruilourosa]

M700 is a very good enlarger, just clean it and use it...

Develop a little more your negatives and use the diffuser head!

 

[joesh]

M700 is a very good enlarger, just clean it and use it...

Develop a little more your negatives and use the diffuser head!

Yes thanks, I'm starting to see that. However, the first thing is to see if the bulb/power supply is working - I haven't had time yet due to work.
I also didn't know the difference between a diffuser and a condenser enlarger until a few days ago when people mentioned it here. I'm 62 years old and been using darkrooms as a teenager and in my 20s back in my art college days, but never looked at all this in detail.

Now that things have become more 'rare' all these things are starting to be discussed on YouTube which is very interesting. I see there's even new enlargers coming onto the market, which is a good thing as it will stall all the overpriced old material out there - and maybe put new life into photography and printing.

Lastly, I'm still tempted to go and pick up the M370 (which also has a 6x6 converter) for a 100€. It seems compact, and maybe a good choice for smaller spaces. This M700 sure is big and heavy, something I was surprised to discover.

Lastly (or supplementary question), the lady I bought the Durst from for 10€ also has a Manufoc II enlarger (that's working). Does anyone know anything about those, and is it worth picking up - she was happy to give it to me, but I thought two enlargers was a bit greedy!

 

[ruilourosa]

M370 or m670 are not the best enlargers...

 

[joesh]

M370 or m670 are not the best enlargers...

Okay, I'll keep that in mind. But out of interest, what makes the M700 a good enlarger, if that's possible for someone to explain (in comparison to the other two)?

 

[ruilourosa]

Solid, pro grade, mostly metal... Counterwheight rise on the column....

Theo m370 and m670 were more like amateur enlargers...

 

[joesh]

Okay, just to bring the thread up to date. I've cleaned the contacts, and hey presto, the light/bulb is indeed working.

So, I guess I now need to test the enlarger, is there anything I should be checking for on an M700? Naturally, the best thing will be to just print a negative and see what the lens gives ( schneider-krueznach 80mm). Anyhow, if there's anything someone can think of, let me know here so I can give it a good clean and look over before doing the final test - printing a negative.

Thanks again.

 

[koraks]

Congrats, that's good news!

I usually don't do much in the way of testing; I just start using it and if there's anything wrong, I'll notice it soon enough anyway. But there's a few things you could do before the actual work starts, if you're into testing things.

You could/should check if the filter adjustments work; turn on the lamp and dial the magenta filter to its highest setting; you should see the light bundle change in color as you do this. Then do the same for yellow. You could also check cyan, but since you're not going to use that anyway in all likelihood, it doesn't matter if it works or not. It should be set to 0 for normal work.

Verify that there are no severe light leaks. On my enlarger I've got some flaps and things here and there to cut back some of the light spillage that seeps out of various seams in the assembly. Stray light will reduce contrast in your prints and if there's a lot of it, you'll end up chasing your own tail trying to troubleshoot problems with dull prints.

Verify all the mechanics work and operate easily; i.e. raising and lowering the head should be smooth and not require much force, and the same for focus.

With a negative in the carrier, lift the head up until you get the largest (focused) image that still fits on your baseboard. Check if you can get the focus alright, and especially verify if the focus is the same in the center and all corners. If you have to adjust the focus from one corner to another, there's a problem with the construction and something isn't quite parallel. This is rare IME with these kinds of enlargers, but worthwhile checking.

Also, if you find you can't get a large print into focus, you have a problem with too much film to lens distance, which is a common issue if the wrong lens board is used for the enlarging lens. I don't expect you to run into this issue at all given your use of an 80mm lens, but if/when you add a 50mm lens for 35mm to your setup, you'll find that you may need a recessed lens board for this to work. Btw, your 80mm will also work with 35mm negatives just fine, but you'll be more limited in how big you can print. With a 80mm lens and a 35mm negative you generally run out of height at around an 18x24cm enlargement or thereabouts.

You could/should also test coverage & evenness. To do this, expose a sheet of paper with no negative in the carrier (but the carrier and mask in place) using high contrast and a typical aperture (e.g. f/11 or so). Make the print so that you end up with a neutral to somewhat dark greyscale. Any lens coverage or off-center problems will show up this way as lighter corners or a dark spot in the center, or one side of the image being lighter than the rest. Given your setup and lens used, I again don't expect any problems here.

 

[Randy Stewart]

I have used an M800 for decades with its colorhead. The M700 is its predecessor, and after all of these years, I still do not know what the difference is. All of the accessories and parts seem interchangeable. I also have a B&W condenser version of the M700, a "good deal" purchase made years ago but not used. As for yours, the wear part is the projection light bulb, which may be getting hard to find in Europe, so I'd find and buy a couple for safe keeping. What distinguishes the M700/800 from later medium format Durst enlargers is that they are assembled from die cast parts in critical areas and almost never require any alignment or adjustment to functions. The later models are not as heavily built, but their colorheads are better laid out.

The weak part, and should be checked before purchase, is the two toothed tracks on the back of the head height adjustment column. These parts were made out of some sort of nylon, which has become brittle over time. People who try to fast crank that head up the column can break off teeth in the track, causing the height adjustment system to fail. In the day, Durst sold replacement tracks, easily installed, but that supply is gone. I few years ago, I noticed that new replacements were being offered by someone 3-D printing them, but it's a risk of doing business with old machines if you need and cannot find.

One tip for VC B&W printing: These older Durst colorheads do not have the range of color correction that later models have. I guess that the VC paper available 40+ years ago didn't have as wide a contrast adjustment as today's paper. So, to cover the very high and low contrast possibilities of today's paper, even if not regularly required, lay in some color filters to over the extremes. The enlarger has a filter drawer below the colorhead, so they are easy to use when needed.

If you use the colorhead for VC or color printing, note that you will need different diffusion boxes below the colorhead and above the negative carrier. These are designed to cover 35mm, 6x6, and 6x9cm formats. They used to be less available and fairly expensive, however it looks on ebay like the dealers are clearing out parts and accessories for these old enlarges right now. Availability is good, and prices are low. Buy what you think you may need but do not have, before they are gone.

 

[joesh]

I have used an M800 for decades with its colorhead. The M700 is its predecessor, and after all of these years, I still do not know what the difference is. All of the accessories and parts seem interchangeable. I also have a B&W condenser version of the M700, a "good deal" purchase made years ago but not used. As for yours, the wear part is the projection light bulb, which may be getting hard to find in Europe, so I'd find and buy a couple for safe keeping. What distinguishes the M700/800 from later medium format Durst enlargers is that they are assembled from die cast parts in critical areas and almost never require any alignment or adjustment to functions. The later models are not as heavily built, but their colorheads are better laid out.

The weak part, and should be checked before purchase, is the two toothed tracks on the back of the head height adjustment column. These parts were made out of some sort of nylon, which has become brittle over time. People who try to fast crank that head up the column can break off teeth in the track, causing the height adjustment system to fail. In the day, Durst sold replacement tracks, easily installed, but that supply is gone. I few years ago, I noticed that new replacements were being offered by someone 3-D printing them, but it's a risk of doing business with old machines if you need and cannot find.

One tip for VC B&W printing: These older Durst colorheads do not have the range of color correction that later models have. I guess that the VC paper available 40+ years ago didn't have as wide a contrast adjustment as today's paper. So, to cover the very high and low contrast possibilities of today's paper, even if not regularly required, lay in some color filters to over the extremes. The enlarger has a filter drawer below the colorhead, so they are easy to use when needed.

If you use the colorhead for VC or color printing, note that you will need different diffusion boxes below the colorhead and above the negative carrier. These are designed to cover 35mm, 6x6, and 6x9cm formats. They used to be less available and fairly expensive, however it looks on ebay like the dealers are clearing out parts and accessories for these old enlarges right now. Availability is good, and prices are low. Buy what you think you may need but do not have, before they are gone.

That's brilliant advice, big thanks. I think most of the enlarger is still in good working order, the rails look fine (I think). I had thought about the bulb, so I'll follow up your advice, but I had wondered if in future years one could convert it in some way, there must be a similar bulb being made, and since the light is being diffused there could be another bulb that may work? Anyhow, that's not a problem today.

As for the filters, I have a nice Ilford set that I carry around with me for use in the college darkrooms, so I'll just use those in the filter draw you mentioned (I did wonder if that was where they'd go).

Lastly the diffusion boxes suggestion sounds a very good idea. I had noticed that this one just comes with a simple box (so for 35mm?). I will look out for those as it would seem that having a heavy built enlarger such as this would be a waste if I can only do one thing on it - and I do have an old Yashica-C (?), which I have to say I've never used, but do intend to (it was my fathers, so sitting around unused at present).

Thanks again, I'll get onto some of those things.

p.s. Can someone tell me what I need to 'type' into Ebay (or whatever) to find the different diffuser boxes? Is is something like 'M700 Diffuser' box?

 

[AnaC]

Hello. I'm about to buy a Durst M700 and I would like to acquire a color head. I haven't been able to find a Cls 70/80. I've seen photos of M700 with Cls 66 color head, but according to the heads manuals it shouldn't be possible. Are they adaptable in some way or is it viable to have a M700 with Cls66?

 

[koraks]

Are they adaptable in some way or is it viable to have a M700 with Cls66?

I don't think so. In your place I'd look for an enlarger that comes with a color head, or otherwise choose a type for which heads are more plentiful in Europe. What's the largest negative size you print from? If you don't go beyond 6x6cm, the M605 is more common in my experience and many of them come with a dichroic head.

Welcome to Photrio!

 

[AnaC]

I don't think so. In your place I'd look for an enlarger that comes with a color head, or otherwise choose a type for which heads are more plentiful in Europe. What's the largest negative size you print from? If you don't go beyond 6x6cm, the M605 is more common in my experience and many of them come with a dichroic head.

Welcome to Photrio!

I'm acquiring a durst 700 for less than 20 euro. Can't find anything with color heads less than 200. I've never printed more than 120, but for now I'd be using it for experiences with photograms and chemigrams.

Thank you! Glad to be here

 

[koraks]

I'm acquiring a durst 700 for less than 20 euro.

Ah, that's just too good to pass up! I'd jump on it, too, and ask questions later.

 

[AnaC]

Ah, that's just too good to pass up! I'd jump on it, too, and ask questions later.

That's exactly what I did. 35 for two enlargers, the durst and a beautiful meopta typ 74210. They need a lot of work. I think I have my hands full before I can even think of working in color