Durst M605 or Beseler 23c?

[harlequin]

Dear Apug,

Have opportunity to obtain either a M605 very good condition or older version of 23c/blue
color, question of quality of light as Durst seems to be diffusion/coldlight with mirror?? I am
not an engineer but they both look rugged, I shall be doing 35mm/645/and 6x6.... Any comments,
pros cons as well as things to look out for.... I do like the glass neg Carrier with built in masking
features, but do not speak Italian as I notice the accessories (SerioTub,SiroPla) are all labeled
as such, I know the 23c is tested and proven, but would the Durst yield a better print because of lightsource?

Thanking you in advance for your input....!

Harlequin

 

[shoot6x7]

I love my M605's I have one with a colour head and one with a condenser head.

 

[MattKing]

My answer depends greatly on where you are located, and whether there is any likelihood that you may wish to shoot 6x7, 6x8 or 6x9 in the future.

 

[ac12]

I am partial to DURST.
BUT as Matt mentioned, and I learned the hard way, it depends on which side of the pond you are.
Durst parts are hard to find and expensive in the US, probably less so in Europe.
So with the Durst, in the US, you want it as complete as possible, because buying the missing parts will be difficult and expensive.
And the inverse for the Beseler parts, more available in the US than in Europe.

Unless you have the color head, the Durst is a simple condenser enlarger that uses a mirror to redirect the light. No diffusion or cold light.
My M600 is quite bright (I had to drop down the the smaller 75w bulb) to have something longer than a 4 second exposure, for an 8x10 print from a 35mm negative. I actually would like a 35 or 20w bulb to give me a longer exposure about 15-20 sec.
If I could find a M605 in good condition at a reasonable price (cheap), I would jump on it, to upgrade my M600.

 

[AgX]

I do not speak Italian as I notice the accessories (SerioTub,SiroPla) are all labeled
as such.

-) "Harlequin" is based on an italian term, so somehow you must be related to that language...

-) The Durst parts/accessories designations are not Italian but rather Durst-speak.
Made up likely less to understand them, but to be memorized and written better than just a collumn of figures.

 

[kwm]

I have the M601 ( the "middle" between M600 and M605) Why do you want to "upgrade"? I love the M600`s focus aid, which I know from the M301. The only two "real" advantages, the M605 has, are the availability of the colorhead and a better column. I would keep the M600 ! The Beseler 23 might be nice but in Europe I would allways buy 1.Kienzle 2.Durst 3.Kaiser (in that order) ....

 

[RobertP]

Durst did make a cold cathode light. I have one for my M800. You slide out your condenser and it slides in. Its called the Durst Danoli. I don't know if they made one for the 600 series though.

 

[AgX]

Durst likely was the manufacturer worldwide with the greatest expertise seen the many decades they had been manufucturing a so wide scope of enlargers.
Kaiser on the other hand designed a very modular range of parts to be combined to form an enlarger best fitted to one needs.

 

[grahamp]

If you are buying a Durst, make sure it has all the parts you need - both condensers (35mm and 6x6), both flat and recessed lens boards with a 39mm thread. Check the carrier is in good shape. The M605 uses a masking glass unit normally. The only reason my M605 is packed up is that it takes up less room than the second Beseler M45. I shipped my Dursts (I have a little F30 packed away as well) when I moved here from the UK, or I wouldn't have them in California. If I had a bigger darkroom I might even put it back in service.

 

[John Koehrer]

Again. Where are you?
One limitation of the Durst is the straight column that can limit cropping on the baseboard.
If you want to move the easel to move the horizon downward the column is in the way. The beseler has
an angled column.

 

[MattKing]

Durst had/has reasonable availability in Canada as well.

 

[bdial]

All things being equal, I'd choose the Durst, but things are rarely equal. I agree with the prior statements as to location for availability of parts and accessories.

 

[klownshed]

If they are chap enough and you have the space to store one, why not just buy them both! You could keep one setup for 35mm, the other for 120 or just try them both in use to see which you prefer.

When buying the stuff I needed for my darkroom I ended up with a couple of darkroom job lots and as a result have too many enlargers. But it's not until you actually use them that you can decide for yourself which one suits you best. You may also discover little issues with one or the other that makes your choice easier.

I have realised I prefer condenser heads and below lens filters to a colour head for example. I also need to make an alternate filter holder for one of my enlargers as I can't use the ilford below lens holder with it's recessed lens board. It's not until you actually use an enlarger that some of these things become clear.

Eventually I think I'll keep two enlargers and have one set up for 35mm, the other for 120. I have space at my office to store the others for spares.

Buy them both and then you can always sell on the 'loser'

 

[harlequin]

Thanks for the input, I live in South Central Texas, so I see more Beseler equipment than Durst
but the Durst looks serious and precise with its gearing and layout and the glass neg carrier.....are the lensboards still available from Durst?

Again, I don't think either would be a bad choice since I shoot 35mm 645 and 6x6.

Harlequin

 

[AgX]

Durst cancelled production of the latest units in 2005, the latest service period ended in 2010.
As far as I know all spare parts have been sold and the only service they still might offer is selling manuals.

 

[M Carter]

Thanks for the input, I live in South Central Texas, so I see more Beseler equipment than Durst
but the Durst looks serious and precise with its gearing and layout and the glass neg carrier.....are the lensboards still available from Durst?

Again, I don't think either would be a bad choice since I shoot 35mm 645 and 6x6.

Harlequin

Not a Durst expert, but with many enlargers, you can make your own lens boards and neg carriers in a pinch.

But in the US (I'm in Texas as well), 23c parts availability is impressive. EBay is full of parts, complete enlargers and accessories, and Craigs List regularly has 23C's for next to nothing - you could easily get a 2nd enlarger for parts if you wanted to.

 

[grahamp]

Durst lens panels (for the M605 BW model at least) are circular. The SIRIOTUB (AA 19 700) which mounts the 50mm recessed is roughly 3" in diameter and mounts using an angled face and a retaining stud. It is also threaded for the lens. It is probably a 2 or three part 3D printing task to replicate. With an exemplar or decent drawings a machine shop could turn one up from metal. The critical thing is that the condenser for the 35mm format is not big enough for 6x6. You could live with the 6x6 condenser for smaller formats, but not the other way around.