Durst M605 Color Question

Hello all,

Very quick question: can anyone tell me what the out - in dial is for on the front of the M605 colour head? It isn't mentioned in the manual that I've found online, which makes me think I may have a later model.

Secondly, should it be in or out when making colour prints?

I'm sure I used to know what it is for but have clean forgotten!

Thank you!

It is a supplementary filter. When in the path of light you will get an extra amount of 40 yellow and 40 magenta. It is to be used when the maximum values of 130 are not sufficient.

MrclSchprs said:

It is a supplementary filter. When in the path of light you will get an extra amount of 40 yellow and 40 magenta. It is to be used when the maximum values of 130 are not sufficient.

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Ah! Excellent! Thank you very much.

If 130M is insufficient can anyone explain why it adds identical amounts of both Y and M? I can understand those who claim that max M of 130 with a dichroic head does not give grade 5 might want to increase M but what does an equal amount of Y do for this purpose? Equally if you had a colour neg that had a red cast then adding equal amounts of Y and M will reduce the cast but under what circumstances might you need an equal and substantial amount of both Y and M to this extent, taking you beyond 130?

I am glad the question has been asked because, although I have never needed to use the lever I have often wondered what its actual purpose is.

pentaxuser

Well, whyever it's there, I for one am grateful. This afternoon I had the magenta dial at 130 AND the extra filtration dial switched on to print portra 160 onto Fuji paper.

Roger2000 said:

Well, whyever it's there, I for one am grateful. This afternoon I had the magenta dial at 130 AND the extra filtration dial switched on to print portra 160 onto Fuji paper.

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Thanks. Can you say what your actual filtration was for the print? I assume that the extra Y and M was to correct the colour cast that existed before using the lever that swings in 40Y and 40M.

pentaxuser

pentaxuser said:

If 130M is insufficient can anyone explain why it adds identical amounts of both Y and M? I can understand those who claim that max M of 130 with a dichroic head does not give grade 5 might want to increase M but what does an equal amount of Y do for this purpose? Equally if you had a colour neg that had a red cast then adding equal amounts of Y and M will reduce the cast but under what circumstances might you need an equal and substantial amount of both Y and M to this extent, taking you beyond 130?

I am glad the question has been asked because, although I have never needed to use the lever I have often wondered what its actual purpose is.

pentaxuser

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First of all Durst uses density units not Kodak or Agfa CP type values and Durst 40M + 40Y is a substantial amount of filtration actually very close to my starter filter pack last time I printed color (disclaimer, I do not print color in the darkroom anymore). most of the time you might not need quite as much yellow as magenta but you can always move the yellow dial back a bit to get your final balance. last time I printed color with my M601 my pack was in the neighborhood of 60M+40Y (the M601 only goes to 100 per channel but I always had a set of 3.5x3.5 color filters handy if I needed more filtration).

darkroommike said:

First of all Durst uses density units not Kodak or Agfa CP type values.

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Yes, I know of 4 systems used by the industry. I would not be surprised if there were even more.

Thanks, darkroommike. As you pointed out adjustments can be made to neutralise the unwanted portion of the 40Y by dialling down the independent Y dial to whatever extent required. I needed to think that one through and failed.

However I am still curious to know what Roger2000's filtration was to get a neutral cast if the normal 130 M and Y were insufficient. I have never heard of this extra 40Y and M ever being required. I have never come across any negative I ever printed needing anything like the normal maximum of the Y and M dials, let alone the additional 40 Y and M.

Turning back to B&W prints I am left with the question of whether the extra 40M is required for grade 5 and if so how much is the effect of the extra 40M reduced by the equal addition of 40Y? I can see no way of eliminating the accompanying additional 40Y as at grade 5 there is no Y on the Y dial to dial down.

Clearly Durst saw a purpose in providing the lever that swings in the extra 40 Y and M but I cannot find an explanation in the Durst booklet on the 605M

pentaxuser

The extra 40Y and 40M would do a great job at adding neutral density for those who use the heads for variable contrast black and white.

Y and M, of course make RED. So, for B&W printing, any use of red one might need depending on the workflow.

One guy put the magenta filter in the slot for the red (supplement) filter and then could to split grade easier. So one lever to throw the supplementary filter in and out (now magenta) and the White Light lever to throw the standard Yellow filter (set to maximum) in and out of the path. Saved a lot of time fiddling with the varialbe knobs.

Hello there,

Just for the record, the balance was M130 (max) Y 123. The extra filter was working too, which makes it M170 Y163.

Unusual to have more magenta than yellow, but anything else came out red.

Thanks for the reply, Roger2000. I must admit that I have never seen M and Y filter amounts of this magnitude to correct a red cast. Were these kinds of high Y and M values required for your other prints from the negatives?

I can detect a slight difference between two prints which differ only by 2 units and 5 units make a clear difference. Like darkroommike my filters are in the 60 to mid 70 ranges. So a difference of nearly a 100 units to correct for red is truly massive.

pentaxuser

Is there a non-standard light bulb in the enlarger?

Hi there,

It's a new bulb but it's the correct type - 100w halogen bought through an established online photo dealer. I admit that the filtration values are rather steep, much more so than with my last bulb.

And oddly enough I ran out of Fuji cut sheet and turned to an old stash of supra endura which printed perfectly with the exact same filtration. That doesn't seem quite right, but the evidence is there as plain as day.

...and yes, this same filtration worked for all shots from the roll. I had the film developed and scanned by a lab, and the pictures seem quite normal on the cd. I didn't have a red filter on or anything like that.

Roger2000 said:

Hello all,

Very quick question: can anyone tell me what the out - in dial is for on the front of the M605 colour head? It isn't mentioned in the manual that I've found online, which makes me think I may have a later model.

Secondly, should it be in or out when making colour prints?

I'm sure I used to know what it is for but have clean forgotten!

Thank you!

Click to expand...

I'm not a 100% sure but,Ithink it adds a filter to compensate for the orange tint of C41-processed color negatives. What changes visually o the baseboard when you activate it?

Still a puzzle. A new 100 watt bulb should not have made much if any difference to the filtration. What was your last bulb? If you get OK prints with almost max filtration then you could ask: what is all the fuss about? However this is so unusual that it warrants investigation and secondly it means that for normal negatives, assuming they are normal you are already "on the limit" so to speak in terms of available filtration which is a concern

What was the spec of the old bulb compared to the new one and what was the typical filtration of your old prints?

pentaxuser