Durst m605 color for b/w prints.

I'm new to the idea of developing and printing my own pictures and for a while now i've been playing with the idea. After looking around for what sort of equipment i need and how much it'll set me back, i decided i was gonna give it a shot. I've narrowed it down to two alternatives for my newbie darkroom set.

One is a new 'beginner set' from a local store with a Dunco KB35 enlarger, the other is a used set i found online with a Durst m605 color (also with everythign else needed for color prints).

Now.. after searching the forums here i've understood that a color enlarger will be able to handle b/w, which will be my main use for it.
I haven't been able to find any mroe info on that though.

Do i need extra equipment to make it handle b/w?
Will there be any difference in the quality of the prints when using a color enlarger for b/w as opposed to a b/w enlarger? (disregarding the lens)

They are both complete darkroom sets including everything i need from opening the film to looking at my pictures in the album.
The Durst comes with two lenses though.. one EL-nikkor 50mm and one 75mm. Not sure what the Dunco comes with, whatever is standard for that model..

The difference in price for the two sets really isn't all that significant. About 90 us dollars. with the m605 set being the more expensive.

This is turning into a long post.. i'll get to the point.

Will the m605 have any issue with b/w that would make a dedicated b/w enlarger a better option?
Are there any issues i should be aware of with either of these enlargers?
Putting yourself in my situation.. a complete beginner with no knowledge what so ever.. which one would you get? and why?

I hope this wasn't too confusing, but if it is i hope you'll be understanding.. i've been looking at equipment and equipment specs all day and im a lil over stimulated

Either enlarger will be fine. The Durst will print B&W just as well as the Dunco. There are two types of photographic paper: single grade and multicontrast. Single grade comes in a contrast range from 2 to 4. Multicontrast paper changes contrast by using multigrade filters. When using multicontrast paper the color head on the Durst can be used to set the filtration for the grades. With the Dunco you will need a set of multigrade filters. These filters are placed in the filter drawer below the light source or under the enlarging lens.

Here's a link to Ilford's site on multigrade filters. There's also a chart on what settings to use on a variety of color heads for multigrade use.

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2006130201152306.pdf

Degenetron said:

One is a new 'beginner set' from a local store with a Dunco KB35 enlarger, the other is a used set i found online with a Durst m605 color (also with everythign else needed for color prints).

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I'd never heard of Dunco before now. A Google search on "Dunco KB35" turned up a handful of hits, none of them in languages I understand. The Durst M605, OTOH, is a fairly popular model, although I have no personal experience with it. That's not to say the Dunco is worse -- it could easily be a rebadged version of a good enlarger made by somebody else, or an unusual but good device. You'll probably find more enlarger-specific help with the Durst, though, should you need it.

Do i need extra equipment to make it handle b/w?
Will there be any difference in the quality of the prints when using a color enlarger for b/w as opposed to a b/w enlarger? (disregarding the lens)

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No; and no, with some minor caveats. With a color enlarger, you typically use the magenta and yellow filters to create filtration that's equivalent to that provided by the separate filters you use with a B&W enlarger. The color filters generally work as well, but some people prefer to use conventional B&W filters. If you think you might prefer separate filters, though, you could always use them with a color enlarger, so in a worst-case scenario a color enlarger will just have some dials you won't use.

The Durst comes with two lenses though.. one EL-nikkor 50mm and one 75mm. Not sure what the Dunco comes with, whatever is standard for that model..

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Find out if that's the f/2.8 or f/4 EL-Nikkor 50mm lens; the f/2.8 is a superior 6-element design, whereas the f/4 is a cheaper 4-element design. If it's a starter kit, the Dunco probably comes with a cheap 4-element lens, or maybe even a cut-rate 3-element lens. Fortunately, lenses are cheap on eBay, so if the lens you get is poor, you can pick up an excellent replacement for $50 or less, if you bid carefully.

You'd probably use the 50mm lens for enlarging from 35mm negatives and the 75mm lens for enlarging from 6x6 (medium format) negatives. If the Dunco can't handle MF negatives (I'm guessing it can't, given its model number), then that's definitely a factor in favor of the Durst. Even if you only shoot 35mm now, you might decide to try MF in the future, so having that capability is useful.

Will the m605 have any issue with b/w that would make a dedicated b/w enlarger a better option?

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No.

Are there any issues i should be aware of with either of these enlargers?
Putting yourself in my situation.. a complete beginner with no knowledge what so ever.. which one would you get? and why?

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I know nothing about the Dunco, aside from what you've posted, and relatively little about the Durst. My inclination, based on that limited knowledge, is to favor the Durst, for the reasons I've outlined above. Also, having color capability could be useful in the future, even if you don't intend to use it today. (You can do color enlargements with a B&W enlarger, but you need a set of color filters, and adjusting the filter pack with these filters is more tedious than adjusting the filtration via dials on a color head.)

I hope this wasn't too confusing, but if it is i hope you'll be understanding.. i've been looking at equipment and equipment specs all day and im a lil over stimulated

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I understand. If you feel overwhelmed with information you might want to hold off on a purchase until you've had time to digest it a bit more. Even if there's a time limit on buying one or both of your options, it might be better to let that one get away than to make a rushed decision -- there are lots of used (and even new) enlargers out there at excellent prices!

I have the Durst M605. I found it easy to use. I cannot compare it to others as it is the only one I have ever had but I have been very satisfied with the prints, both colour and B&W. Mine is the El Nikkor f2.8 lens and a very fine lens it is.

The column will accept an extension for the very large projection required for very large prints and an arm on which your camera can be attached for copying prints to negs. It also has the versatility to correct on a print the converging verticals found on negs of high buildings.

None of this may concern you now but is worth bearing in mind for your later printing apprenticeship.

It's only drawback is that it cannot handle bigger than 6x6 negs so 6x7 negs which are a common MF size would require a different enlarger. If MF at 6x7 is an eventual goal then I'd think about a bigger enlarger.

On the other hand 6 x4.5 negs which it will handle will give you superb prints at up to 12" x 16" in my opinion. That's getting quite big.

pentaxuser

HI.

I also have the Durst M605. I like it very much. The color head is easy to use and I like it that I can adjust Yellow and Mangenta in the way that the time is always constant with contrast changes. I have the data for Ilford Baryt, if you need.

What also very good for SW is, that you can very quickly turn all the color lamps in and out. So, you can set the picture sharp with only white color light easily.

The durst is also very solid built. If you use a 80mm lens and enlarge 6X6, the biggest size will be 42 cm. Bigger is only possible with a 75mm lens or a piece called Sirioar, which I have. If you need the manual, I have it and can copy it for you.

Of course the Durst is also very easy to use for projection on a wall.

I can recommend it.

The only point which is not so good, are the light leaks around the negative holder. But a simple piece of clothing there is sufficient. This is also just a problem if you stand the enlarger in a tiny bathroom with white flagstones and huge reflections, like I have to do ;-)

So I transport the enlarger every time in and out of the bathroom. It is a very robust one. Have fun !

Dietmar is right about the light leaks from the neg carrier. I have never found them to be a problem in terms of fogging paper and just ignore them. I always switch the lamp off before taking the paper out of the papersafe of course to avoid any white light shining on the paper as it is placed under the enlarger.

Dietmar. How do you fix the clothing around the neg carrier so you can easily remove and re-fix each time you need to move to the next neg on the strip?

What benefits do you find by eliminating the leak in this way?

I might consider doing something about the leak depending on your reply.

Thanks

pentaxuser

Degenetron said:

The difference in price for the two sets really isn't all that significant. About 90 us dollars. with the m605 set being the more expensive.

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From what little I could figure out the Dunco KB35 is 35mm only. But I don't read Norwegian very well so that with a BIG grain of salt

http://www.fotoimport.no/pg07/pg07-1-1.htm

Are you saying either for these are costing more then $90US? In todays market that sounds too high. If you list everything included then you could get a better feel for value. OTOH if it's the usual budget student setup then it's not worth a great deal today. But list what is included.

The 75mm Nikon is their budget lens. Acceptable but you can buy the better 80mm for not much money today.

I wouldn't buy any new darkroom stuff now. Great stuff is practically being given away for nothing on ebay.

I just simply fix it with a sticky tape around the front side from right to left. I usually make only 1-3 prints a session.
I do NOT lay the clothing on top of the enlarger!!! There he needs to breathe ;-)

The slash at the right side, where you can choose if 35mm od 6X6 I have permamently taped a black carboard over it.

I do not think the leaks are a problem, unless as said above.

Besides a real fogging test, try putting a lense cap on the lens and then turn the enlarger on. Now you directly see/or not if there is a real problem on the table. I think usually there will be none.

Of course, with greater enlargments, and longer time, I think, "no problem" can become one.

So overall, the best way is to make the fogging test yourself.

Dunco (Berlin) is one of the very few enlarger producers left in Europe. They can still deliver spare parts for all enlargers.
Actual they are still making their Dunco II 67 (cm) line, basic, XL and 120 pro modell equipped with color head, VC head, CVC (combination) and the possibility of the Heiland Split Grade (TM) module.

Here is the Dunco II 67 which I am also using.
http://photo.net/bboard/uploaded-file?bboard_upload_id=26163884

Very nice enlargers, mechanically very good, super lighting and no heating problems. Better than a M605 which is also a very nice enlarger, at that time a top amateur model.

Best regards,

Robert

Just making a quick reply to thank you all for the replies. I learned more from 5 minutes of reading here than i did from hours and hours of trolling the web all by my lonesome I'll list the exact contents of the packs when i get a reply from the guy selling the m605.