DURST 138 - Please help to identify (and maybe something more) :)

[Miko Novak]

Well, at first (since I couldn't find separate thread for this) I'd like to say HELLO to all of You - APUG members!

And now to the point.

Recently I've bought mentioned enlarger, it lacks some important accessories so I have to hunt them down now and here little confusion arose. I simply do not know what enlarger EXACTLY do I have, and how much does that matter in completing remaining parts.
What I need:
1. LATICOs - for 6x6cm and 4x5 inch negatives
2. Lenses for those negatives (I have only 210mm)
3. Negative carrier and/or masks for above negatives

The seller sold me this enlarger as "DURST 138S" so I quickly got appropriate *.pdf manual and started looking for mentioned parts, but then I looked at sign plate of my enlarger and here it is:

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It says only "Laborator 138" without "S"
In Durst Usa comparison guide http://www.durst-pro-usa.com/5x7_comparison%20guide.htm it is described as earlier, WALL MOUNTED version ("S" would mean "Stand" then), but again my sign plate has a drawing of enlarger with stand! AND my enlarger indeed HAS a stand! Can it be some kind of "mix"?
Please someone straighten this up! It's all so messed up :confused:
Another thing are pairs of condensers for 6x6 and 4x5 enlarging.
Durst manual says I should use 200/130 and 240/200 while above plate shows 180/130 and 240/180
Seems that my enlarger head was designed for 180 condensers but I found out that they are hard to get. Will it be much difference if I use 200 instead?

Last thing I have to ask (for now ) is about negative carrier. Enlarger came with this one:
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And again, I cannot find any documentation nor photos of anything similar.
As You can see on second image, it's name is barely visible, all that can be read is "NEGA..."
I thought it's "NEGA 138" at first, but the latter has a completely different "book" design.

So:
- What negative carrier do I have then?
- How do I operate it? Upper left knob seems to adjust focusing cross (what for?)
Lower center knob rises and lowers "glass sandwich" (what for again?)
- Can I use it to print 6x6 and 4x5 negatives, and if so what additional accessories do I need?
(I store 6x6 in 3-4 frame stripes)

I know that was a lot of questions, so eternal glory to anyone who read them patiently!
Even more glory to anyone who can answer to them

Thank You in advance!
Miko.

 

[ic-racer]

I can only be of marginal assistance as I have the 8x10 model, rather than the 5x7 model.

In terms of lens and condensers. The 210mm lens and appropriate condensers should work fine for 4x5 while you search for the other parts. In fact, with my somewhat larger L1840, the 150mm lens is actually too short for most 4x5 work. I use the 210mm for 4x5 unless I want to do larger than 20x24 inch printing.

In term of negative carriers. I'm not an expert on that model, but if you have a single 5x7 glass carrier you should be able to use that for all formats. That is what I do, I just have 10x10 inch glass carriers and use masks on top or below the glass for the smaller formats all the way down to 35mm.

Good luck. I'm sure some of the 138 users will chime in here also.

 

[Miko Novak]

Thanks for tips ic!
Unfortunately I have no laticos at all, so I'll be completing them from scratch.
The point is: do I need to look strictly for Latico 180 or will latico 200 work as well?

Also, some help with mentioned negative carrier still greatly appreciated

 

[Ole]

Hang on a bit here!

The focal lengths of the condensers depend on the focal length of the enlarger lens, not (directly) on the negative size.

I use a 210mm lens most of the time on my 138S, and if I enlarge 4z5" or 9x12cm negs with that lens then the 240/240 combination gives far more even illumination than the 240/180 combination.

So I only swap to a 150mm lens (or a 105mm lens for MF) If I'm making VERY large prints - and only then do I change the condensers.

 

[Miko Novak]

Thanks for all input so far!
I'll think about lenses but first I have to clarify then:
Isn't 4x5" closer to 9x12 then 10x15?
Both are inaccurate but from my impression 4x5" ~ 9x12cm
(I prefer to use only 3 condesers - less searching and less cost, and I can subordinate lenses to condensers I'll get.)

Anything about this negative carrier?

Update
After some reading I think I figured it out (correct me if I'm wrong):
It is better to use condenser combination for a bit BIGGER negative for sake of more even illumination, right?
So that's why it's better to treat 4x5" as 10x15cm then 9x12cm right?
And 6,5x9cm stead of 6x6
In such case I might use 130/200/240 latico set...

Right now I have only MF camera - getting this enlarger was first step to LF for me, so 6x6cm is my primary concern now.
Ole, using longer lens means less enlargement, can You tell me (more-less) what are biggest prints You can get from 6x6cm using: 105, 150 and 210mm?

 

[paul ewins]

A 4x5 sheet of film is approximately 100mm x 125mm, i.e. slightly smaller than 4" x 5" (101.6 x 127mm). Glass plates were true 4"x5", but the film that replaced them was cut slightly smaller so that it would fit in metal sheaths that would mimic the dimensions of the glass plate. This meant that people with plate holders didn't need to replace them, just buy some cheap metal sheaths to fit inside them. You would be better off treating 4x5 as 10x15 as going oversize is more likely to give you even illumination than undersize.

 

[ic-racer]

.
Ole, using longer lens means less enlargement, can You tell me (more-less) what are biggest prints You can get from 6x6cm using: 105, 150 and 210mm?

The Durst L1840 was coincdentally designed so that with the head at the top and the baseboard at the bottom, the negative fills the entire baseboard with a 'standard' focal length lens for each format. In my case that is about 40 inches.

So, for your enlarger I'll guess that a 6x6cm negative projected with an 80mm lens with the head at the top and the baseboard at the bottom, the image will fill the whole basebaord. With the 150mm lens, the image will be about 1/2 as big.

 

[jhochstoeger]

Hi Miko,

I have the same enlarger

the negative carrier is indeed called "Nega", i also have the later nega 138 model, it is better in my eyes...
about the condensors: the 138´s are sometimes for sale on ebay, often with all the condensors there were. I bought mine with just two 240´s, and about a year later bought a second model for about 150 euros, with all the condensors.

i saw one on this here:
http://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-...ator-138s-zu-verkaufen-20359880?adId=20359880

it´s just in german unfortunately- basically it is the 138 with 8 condensors, a cold-light-source and a repro stand. maybe interesting.

for any questions about the enlarger just contact me, it will try to help.

greets
Hans

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

I have one as well.
You had many 138 S models through the years. They all had a stand, what changed was the head. Condenser, color, cold light...etc.
Condenser being the oldest model.
About the condensers, basically the more you can have the better. You may need a specific combo one day. They sell on ebay for almost nothing now (or they used to). You also have the cold light option for this model. Which comes exactly like a condenser.
Another thing you need to be careful of is the light alignment. Very important.
Enjoy this "Metal Lego" !

 

[Ole]

...
Ole, using longer lens means less enlargement, can You tell me (more-less) what are biggest prints You can get from 6x6cm using: 105, 150 and 210mm?

Sorry, I can't. I use a MF enlarger for everything up to 6x6. Yes, I have two enlargers...