Dunning-Kruger Effect: Why you're not as good a photographer as you think you are

[Andrew O'Neill]

Some interesting points made.


https://www.dpreview.com/news/75007...t-as-good-a-photographer-as-you-think-you-are

 

[faberryman]

Dunning-Kruger also posits that high achievers may undervalue their accomplishments mistakenly assuming what is easy for them is easy for everyone. The title to this thread could just as easily be: "Dunning-Kruger Effect: Why you're a better photographer than you think you are."

 

[spijker]

Now the dilemma becomes; am I a self-overestimating bad photographer or a self-underestimating good photographer.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Now the dilemma becomes; am I a self-overestimating bad photographer or a self-underestimating good photographer.

Oh, I am the latter.

 

[jtk]

"Have you ever noticed that as you learn more about the world of photography, you tend to realize just how little you actually know?"

Being a good photographer has almost nothing to do with how much "you actually know."

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

Every time I think I'm a great photographer, I look at the photographers I follow on Flickr. Tons of great photographers. For me, being humbled keeps me improving my photography a little bit at a time.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Digital cameras magnify this effect 10000 fold. Everyone thinks they are a good photographer these days because technology makes the photos for them. We are basically living in a sea of mediocrity and egotism. The brashness of newbies overwhelms the cautious confidence of the experienced.

 

[faberryman]

Everyone thinks they are a good photographer these days because technology makes the photos for them.

It is simply absurd that digital cameras make images for photographers, any more than film cameras make images for photographers. This is the same tiresome and petty film vs. digital argument that infects and diminishes this forum every day. Enough.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Dunning-Kruger also posits that high achievers may undervalue their accomplishments mistakenly assuming what is easy for them is easy for everyone. The title to this thread could just as easily be: "Dunning-Kruger Effect: Why you're a better photographer than you think you are."

Also, Dunning & Kruger used the terms "competent/incompetent" not the words "good/bad".
But the real gem is seeing D-K cited on dpreview - priceless!

 

[jim10219]

How good of a photographer I think I am is inversely proportional to the amount of time elapsed since my last viewing of my own portfolio.

 

[removed account4]

It is simply absurd that digital cameras make images for photographers, any more than film cameras make images for photographers. This is the same tiresome and petty film vs. digital argument that infects and diminishes this forum every day. Enough.

hi faberryman
i see what you are saying but i also see what patrick is saying
very much how a box camera in the 1880s allowed everyone ( the mediocre as well as the expert )
to be a photographer, the digital camera has democratized photography even more.
with a box camera, 35mm &c you exposed dropped your film off, labbed them and got them back, the main cropping device
was a pair of scissors, unless you opted to make enlargements or duplicates. with the phone, you can crop, straighten
levels, color boost &c so its not hard to see where patrick is coming from. and its not hard to say that 99% of everything out there
is not really very good. sure its the same percentage as it was 30 years ago, but in the last year or so more photographs have been uploaded
to the inter webs than from the dawn of photographic image making until that time so its kind of like finding nutrition in a box of capt'n crunch with crunch berries ( of course ! )
==
no matter what i do or make, im pretty much a novice interesting in learing what to do next

 

[eddie]

"Have you ever noticed that as you learn more about the world of photography, you tend to realize just how little you actually know?"

Yes. I think that's part of what keeps me at it. There's always something to discover and learn.

 

[jtk]

Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind Quotes

“Treat every moment as your last. It is not preparation for something else.”
― Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind: Informal Talks on Zen Meditation and Practice

“In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert’s there are few”
― Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind: Informal Talks on Zen Meditation and Practice

“Even though you try to put people under control, it is impossible. You cannot do it. The best way to control people is to encourage them to be mischievous. Then they will be in control in a wider sense. To give your sheep or cow a large spacious meadow is the way to control him. So it is with people: first let them do what they want, and watch them. This is the best policy. To ignore them is not good. That is the worst policy. The second worst is trying to control them. The best one is to watch them, just to watch them, without trying to control them.”
― Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind: Informal Talks on Zen Meditation and Practice

“To have some deep feeling about Buddhism is not the point; we just do what we should do, like eating supper and going to bed. This is Buddhism.”
― Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind: Informal Talks on Zen Meditation and Practice

“What we call "I" is just a swinging door which moves when we inhale and when we exhale.”
― Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind: Informal Talks on Zen Meditation and Practice

“We do not exist for the sake of something else. We exist for the sake of ourselves.”
― Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind: Informal Talks on Zen Meditation and Practice

“When something dies is the greatest teaching.”
― Shunryu Suzuki, Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind: Informal Talks on Zen Meditation and Practice

 

[faberryman]

...and its not hard to say that 99% of everything out there is not really very good. sure its the same percentage as it was 30 years ago, but in the last year or so more photographs have been uploaded to the inter webs than from the dawn of photographic image making until that time so its kind of like finding nutrition in a box of capt'n crunch with crunch berries ( of course ! )

99% of photographs taken since the inception of photography are not really very good. Prior to the web, they were safely hidden away from view in shoe boxes and photo albums and landfills. Now the truth is evident on the internet. Which is why I don't spend much time on social media looking for great images. I don't think digital photography has increased the keeper rate, certainly not in my photography. It is just a different tool.

 

[Sirius Glass]

99% of photographs taken since the inception of photography are not really very good. Prior to the web, they were safely hidden away from view in shoe boxes and photo albums. Now the truth is evident on the internet. Which is why I don't spend much time on social media looking for great images. I don't think digital photography has increased the keeper rate, certainly not in my photography. It is just a different tool.

Kodak's R&D was financed by many crappy snapshots.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Kodak's R&D was financed by many crappy snapshots.

Flowers grow in manure, yep.

 

[eddie]

Maybe 99% of photos ever taken weren’t good, but for most of them the purpose wasn’t to create a work of art. Rather, it was to preserve memories in time. We all have poorly executed photographs of loved ones which are now cherished heirlooms. The fact that the photos don’t meet the aesthetic levels of some other, more aspirational images, does not make them any less successful.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

It is simply absurd that digital cameras make images for photographers, any more than film cameras make images for photographers. This is the same tiresome and petty film vs. digital argument that infects and diminishes this forum every day. Enough.

'Dems some strong words! Lol. Where did I put my fisticufflinks....

I didn't bring up any digital vs. film quality argument. I just simply described what has happened since digital cameras (including phones of course) have become common place. There is no barrier to entry any more. Add in the Dunning-Kruger effect and everyone thinks they are a photographer. This is all pretty simple to observe and rather undeniable.

The same thing has happened in other mediums as well. Look at music these days. Couple clicks and you are all of a sudden a singer even though you can't sing. Same thing. Music is drowning in s sea of mediocrity as well.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

Digital cameras magnify this effect 10000 fold. Everyone thinks they are a good photographer these days because technology makes the photos for them. We are basically living in a sea of mediocrity and egotism. The brashness of newbies overwhelms the cautious confidence of the experienced.

I agree with this. You especially see this effect with the "photographers" (OK, OK, the experts) who comment on the infamous Dpreview. The brash newbies know everything about megapixels, equivalence, bokeh and "cheating on the ISO" and can take 10^5 perfectly-sharp digital pictures on their weekend trip to Paris or New York. I feel sorry for their patient wives or travel partners. But if you asked them how to use a hand-held light meter.....

 

[Arklatexian]

Oh, I am the latter.

Certainly you are! You use a Hasselblad don't you? Whoops, sorry, I don't mean to try to start a Hasselblad Cult here. Belonging to one is enough for me........Regards!.......Hasselblad Cult! Does have a nice sound at that!

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Certainly you are! You use a Hasselblad don't you? Whoops, sorry, I don't mean to try to start a Hasselblad Cult here. Belonging to one is enough for me........Regards!.......Hasselblad Cult! Does have a nice sound at that!

Hasselblad cult?? Wannabes. Now, the Linhof cult! Aahhh, that's a cult!! Right up there with the Deardorff cult

 

[NB23]

I have a lot to say on the subject. But I won’t.

The lack of compositioall skills a lot of photographers are victim to is scary. And what’s even more scary is their audience/followers with even less analysis skills.

This mix creates a vertigo of mediocrity. Or more aptly called a love fest where the stupid follows the blind, and by itself creates new standards. But mediocre standards, where all the players are intergalactic legends in their own minds.

It’s all quite pathetic.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I have a lot to say on the subject. But I won’t.

The lack of compositioall skills a lot of photographers are victim to is scary. And what’s even more scary is their audience/followers with even less analysis skills.

This mix creates a vertigo of mediocrity. Or more aptly called a love fest where the stupid follows the blind, and by itself creates new standards. But mediocre standards, where all the players are intergalactic legends in their own minds.

It’s all quite pathetic.

"From bastards too ignorant to know there is any such thing as "smart", may the good lord preserve us."
The D-K effect was commented on by the ancient Greeks, Darwin mentioned, it was observed thousands of years before D&K wrote their paper. Our instant gratification oriented culture of superficiality fosters it, and a widespread dearth of thinking skills (critical and all the others) combined with laziness assures it's survival and growth.

 

[jtk]

The typewriter made everyone a novelist, right?

 

[E. von Hoegh]

The typewriter made everyone a novelist, right?

"That's not writing, it's typing" Truman Capote on Jack Keruac