Dumb Question - Does fb paper go off?

My sister gave me some Ilford FB paper that she found lying around somewhere. It's never been opened but it's obviously been sitting somewhere for years as the cardboard sleeves are pretty wrecked. Is this likely to be still usable? Does paper have a finite lifespan like film does?

Yes, but I imagine it depends on how it's stored; cool and dry is preferred.

I was given, on two different occasions, some old FB paper that was quite old. It gave less than a great performance. I did use it for contact sheets and for fun, but it had expired.

Yes and Yes But why not try it to see if it is. Just throw a peice in the developer for 1.5 minutes to see if it fogs.

Definitely goes off, but aging effects differ from paper to paper. Just made some nice prints on Agfa Portiga Rapid-- must be over 20 years old and kept at room temperature. (Okay, I did a light bleach to snap up the slightly fogged highlights...and got some great split-toning in Selenium) But I have seen some relatively young Kodak Elite go bad in a relatively short time...and some Kodak Metalist that simply defied aging.

So depending on the storage (mostly heat, but also humidity) it might print well. And there are anti-fog chemical you can put in the developer if the paper is borderline.

vaughn

Just fix a small, unexposed strip to get your base white, and compare to a print border. You will know pretty quick.

Rich Ullsmith said:

Just fix a small, unexposed strip to get your base white, and compare to a print border. You will know pretty quick.

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That is what was so strange with Kodak Elite -- when it went bad, even the fixed out paper was slightly off-white.

Vaughn

hughitb said:

My sister gave me some Ilford FB paper that she found lying around somewhere. It's never been opened but it's obviously been sitting somewhere for years as the cardboard sleeves are pretty wrecked. Is this likely to be still usable? Does paper have a finite lifespan like film does?

Click to expand...

it might still be good
you have to test it to see if it works
to your liking ...
if you find it to be kind of foggy,
don't get rid of it!! make a pinhole camera, and
use it like it is brand new
you may be happy with the results!

have fun!

john

Depending on how much there is and how serious you are to try it, age fogging can be helped substantially by anti-fogging chemicals. Benzotriazole is one. I used it on age-fogged Agfa MCP and it worked a treat.

pentaxuser

hughitb said:

My sister gave me some Ilford FB paper that she found lying around somewhere. It's never been opened but it's obviously been sitting somewhere for years as the cardboard sleeves are pretty wrecked. Is this likely to be still usable? Does paper have a finite lifespan like film does?

Click to expand...

Test it:
1) Process a piece with no exposure, dev-stop-fix and fix only. Should both come out the same, white, no grey fogging.
2) Process a completely fogged (exposed) piece to make sure you are getting a good dmax.

Eventually, any paper will succumb to age. From time to time I've also seen the edges attacked causing what I suspect is chemical fogging.

Rich Ullsmith said:

Just fix a small, unexposed strip to get your base white, and compare to a print border. You will know pretty quick.

Click to expand...

Actually you need to both develop and print a sheet of the suspect batch. Most fogging, be it due to age, light, or chemical exposure, will not become evident without development. If that seems to work, you need to make a print and compare it to a similar print from a known good batch of paper. Often the deterioration of a paper is more subtle than gross fog. Old paper can sometimes be rescued by adding a judicious amount of bezotriazole to the developer.

hughitb said:

My sister gave me some Ilford FB paper that she found lying around somewhere. It's never been opened but it's obviously been sitting somewhere for years as the cardboard sleeves are pretty wrecked. Is this likely to be still usable? Does paper have a finite lifespan like film does?

Click to expand...

I have found the worst paper for keeping was Agfa and Kodak variable-contrast paper (the low-contrast coating died in about 5 years, leaving the paper slow and giving very high contrast only).

Graded paper ages much more slowly, losing speed and contrast. If your paper is FB grade 3, it may well still be a usable grade 2 equivalent. One thing though - if the box is beat up, the black plastic bag with the paper in it may have perished (particularly on a corner or crease), letting light in. Try the paper - I would expect the maximum density (black) to be less than with fresh paper (of course always give full development), the results may be acceptable.

DaveOttawa said:

Test it:
1) Process a piece with no exposure, dev-stop-fix and fix only. Should both come out the same, white, no grey fogging.
2) Process a completely fogged (exposed) piece to make sure you are getting a good dmax.

Click to expand...

Thanks for all the helpful responses folks. I think I will do what Dave is suggesting above ...

To be honest I am not that serious about this because (a) there isn't that much of the paper anyway and (b) I am not a FB user (well at least not yet .... it's been on my list of things to explore properly for a while). So I reckon I'll test it out quickly and if the results look reasonable I'll have some fun experimenting without expecting too much from the results ...

Cheers!

Ilford FB papers keep well for a very long time, I still have some from the 60's and it's fine. It gets slower & less contrasty but unless stored very poorly should still give very good results.

Ian

Probably the most important factor is the time before it's characteristics differ markedly from fresh paper. The late Fay Godwin, landscape photographer (& printer) of great note, gave a figure of 5 years on Agfa Record Rapid before it's behaviour changed significantly. This was a graded paper- VC papers would seem to have a significantly shorter span.

On the other hand I have some Gevaluxe made before WW2 on which it is possible to get a clean print. It's interesting to experiment with getting prints from old materials, especially some of the historic papers which will never be remade. But being serious about it calls for paper as fresh as possible.

Yeah, it can go bad just like any other light sensitive material. Does it go off faster than RC paper or vice versa? I don't think so. It's the stability of the emulsion that counts for more than anything else, and the emulsions are pretty similar on RC and FB papers of the same brand and type. DaveOttawa's suggestion is one of the better ways to test the paper short of making a print on the old and new paper of the same brand and type. Comparing a print made on fresh brand X paper to one made on old brand Y paper tells you nothing conclusive because the two papers may be very different at the start. Take a sheet and cut a couple of strips from it. Run one unexposed strip through the usual process. Run another only through the fixer. After a quick wash and dry, compare them side by side. Assuming that your safelight is safe, any difference will reveal that there is some age fog present.

By the way, there is nothing particularly difficult about using FB papers. They can be a little more difficult to handle when wet (it is a soaking wet piece of paper after all), will exhaust your chemistry more quickly, won't dry flat most of the time, and will cost more to buy. When I first started printing, RC papers were the new technology, not very good, and commanded a premium price. Needless to say, I did most of my printing on Kodabromide grade 2, single weight glossy. When RC papers improved to what they are now and I started using them, it was like a miracle - no more worries about creased, torn, and wrinkled prints. All that and a two minute wash cycle. What's not to like?