Dull camera work

Hubigpielover · Nov 10, 2017

Svenedin said:
Hmm I'm not sure. I enjoy using my camera equipment. My cameras are like old friends. Some cameras are more fun to use than others. It helps to be absolutely familiar with the camera and for the camera to have an intuitive design in the first place. My Olympus OM cameras are a delight to use but I'm highly biased and that's just a personal preference.

I like that bias. I am a fan of of my OM and cannot wait to get it back for John H.

jim10219 · Nov 10, 2017

dasBlute said:
Add constraints, say to yourself, "For the next hour, I must..."

- put the camera down, and find images with my mind I wish I had taken
[but don't allow yourself to take the image, feel the lack, breath deep the missed opportunity]

- shoot wide open
- make images of parts of things, so that it is hard to tell what it really is
- stand at this one corner
- look straight up
- make images with my hand in the scene
- shoot images that imply motion
- show geometry, emulate cubism

[extra credit:]
- make an image that hints at loneliness,intimacy,friendship,hardship,joy,ennui,etc [pick only one].

Definitely add constraints. The less you’re allowing yourself to do, the more creative you become. I’ve had everyone from art teachers to famous artists tell me that. I don’t always remember to do it, but when I do, I’m always pleased with the results. It could be something compositional, like adding a banana to every photo, or something technical, like 30 second exposures. It could even be something ridiculous like “photograph a sound”.

eddie · Nov 10, 2017

Gerald C Koch said:
I will often go out and not bring a camera with me.

This! I do this fairly regularly. There are a few areas, near my home, I photograph often. Every so often, I visit without a camera. Without the constraint of a viewfinder/ground glass, my "vision" ( both literally and figuratively) become boundless. I think (as photographers) we become so accustomed to viewing the world within the limitations of the camera/lens we look through, that we can overlook the "bigger picture". I think we often go out to make photographs, when we should be going out to "see". Every time I've walked without a camera, even though it's been on a path I've walked many times,I've seen scenes I'd never seen before. Sometimes I've returned with a camera later. More often, it reminds me not to view the world exclusively through cameras, making the times I'm out with a camera more successful.
Take a walk without a camera... Let your eyes view in wide angle, telephoto, macro, micro, whatever... picture the "photograph" in your head. Remember how you viewed things without a camera when you do go out with a camera.

markbarendt · Nov 11, 2017

I actually like it when the tools get boring, they are then no longer a distraction during camera work.

For me this means I can pay more attention to my subjects and the composition and ...

The tough job is finding more subject matter.

Craig75 · Nov 11, 2017

I think those are very good points. I will shoot without a finder often but then after a while eyes become the finder and the whole world is seen a camera. This is a very nice experience as it helps see world in a different way. Perhaps too much tho and its easy to start "demanding" world delivers images for you which is an outrageous request.

Its also fair to enjoy the prosaic nature of using the equipment. It does indeed mean you have become fluent enough with the equipment that you can think about anything but the camera.

However once in a long while i will see someone use a camera in unusual ways and think thats genius.

J.E.Piper cynotype film in camera

Admittedly i think one could make this shot in darkroom with a regular film negative but still impressive

removed account4 · Nov 11, 2017

Craig75 said:
how far one can bend reality in camera rather than record it

that's upto the person using the camera and their imagination

usually someone doesn't really have to travel further than 20 feet from where they live to be able to
make something like the photograph/s posted its just realizing what can be done when you see the doorknob or bannister or
shadow on the wall or toothbrush ... and take the steps to turn whatever it might be into what you thought about ...

( don't forget to have fun )

Craig75 · Nov 11, 2017

jnanian said:
that's upto the person using the camera and their imagination

usually someone doesn't really have to travel further than 20 feet from where they live to be able to
make something like the photograph/s posted its just realizing what can be done when you see the doorknob or bannister or
shadow on the wall or toothbrush ... and take the steps to turn whatever it might be into what you thought about ...

( don't forget to have fun )

In all the examples posted though its the camera itself that has been modded. The lens with coburn, the aperture with jager, and the film with piper. Its no longer a standard recording device and instead more of a warping device. It would be impossible to take those shots with an unmodded camera.

removed account4 · Nov 11, 2017

maybe ... or maybe it doesn't matter?
modifications can be done in a non destructive way ...
( something to shoot through ) its still a unmodified recording device, and even if it was modified
why not? its like changing the grip on your hammer or putting shag on your dashboard ..
its just a camera..
if you don't want to modify with something precious to you, i can understand that, just get something else
to putter with, something bought for cheap, maybe that has a garbage lens ... cameras are plentiful even BROKEN ones.
learn how to use it the way that does what you want, or use it the way IT wants to be used. if you listen to your camera
and look at what it does sometimes you can understand what IT wants ...

you have to have a little contempt for your instruments and materials and not be intimidated by
the chorus of people telling you what you are doing is dumb or idiotic and
you " are wasting precious materials " or " that poor camera" ...
there is always a different group of dissatisfied people.
its not like they are paying your bills
just find the ones you respect and trust and sometimes they can lead you down the path ..

good luck !

rrusso · Nov 11, 2017

jnanian said:
there is always a different group of dissatisfied people.

Oh yeah...and what better place to find them but on the internet!?

This reminded me of a recent thread here, where I thought that if someone posted an image of a more unconventional, artsy (for lack of a better term) style, and that person described the making of the image as having been completely random - the result of happy accidents and "sloppy" darkroom work - you would get a group which like the image for what it is, and a group which would not, because it can't be easily reproduced. If, however, the maker described the process as tedious, taking hundreds of hours of trial and error, tons of money in materials, etc.,...there would be a completely different reaction.

Anyway, regarding the main point of this thread, I posted earlier that the OP should try and reproduce artwork, but I'd also like to suggest that maybe "wasting" some film and chemicals could possibly break the tedium, too. Grab your camera and guess at the exposure...then zone focus only - don't even look through the viewfinder. Do this for a few rolls and see if you get any happy accidents...

Craig75 · Nov 11, 2017

rrusso said:
Oh yeah...and what better place to find them but on the internet!?

This reminded me of a recent thread here, where I thought that if someone posted an image of a more unconventional, artsy (for lack of a better term) style, and that person described the making of the image as having been completely random - the result of happy accidents and "sloppy" darkroom work - you would get a group which like the image for what it is, and a group which would not, because it can't be easily reproduced. If, however, the maker described the process as tedious, taking hundreds of hours of trial and error, tons of money in materials, etc.,...there would be a completely different reaction.

Anyway, regarding the main point of this thread, I posted earlier that the OP should try and reproduce artwork, but I'd also like to suggest that maybe "wasting" some film and chemicals could possibly break the tedium, too. Grab your camera and guess at the exposure...then zone focus only - don't even look through the viewfinder. Do this for a few rolls and see if you get any happy accidents...

yes finding a painting and trying to reproduce that style will break my current mode of thinking.

i often shoot no finder and most of my cameras are scale focus so Im already there. When i first read about japanese no finder school I thought why? but its my fav way of street shooting now.

removed account4 · Nov 11, 2017

rrusso said:
This reminded me of a recent thread here, where I thought that if someone posted an image of a more unconventional, artsy (for lack of a better term) style, and that person described the making of the image as having been completely random - the result of happy accidents and "sloppy" darkroom work - you would get a group which like the image for what it is, and a group which would not, because it can't be easily reproduced. If, however, the maker described the process as tedious, taking hundreds of hours of trial and error, tons of money in materials, etc.,...there would be a completely different reaction

people don't care about that sort of stuff, stuff they don't get, they can't master in a weekend &c
or pay someone $3000 to help them "envision"
they care about their gold knobbed paladium finished camera or the new $40,000 light source for their 4000lb enlarger
their ruby and saphire encrusted sink and counter
people want to know what to think, and if you tell them to make believe
they are looking at clouds or seeing a dream and come up with their own meaning for something
they will have your head on a pike and badmouth and argue at you untill they make your tongue fall out
and then for lack of understanding or wanting to attempt to understand
that something can come from the ether or one's soul or a happy accident or purposeful bad technique or ... whatever ...
they will hire someone to put a hex on you, and then follow you around the internet like your private troll,
send you snail hate mail and a horseradish root and fill your internet mail box with stinky rotten food...
unfortunately people take themselves, and their methods of making whatever it is,
perfect prints, imperfect realities ...
or whatever
way too seriously.
and their anger and negative-vibe could be put into a far more productive place, like ... making photographs
and laying off the booze, nicotine, hemp, paint fumes, porn, beetlejuice or whatever else it might be that they
have intoxicated themselves with. life's too short.

sorry craig75 didn'tmean to blabbermouth so much in your thread..

Craig75 · Nov 11, 2017

Not at all john. This can be the urgh im going nowhere with what im doing, show me something by someone up to all sorts of mischief thread.

Sirius Glass · Nov 11, 2017

jnanian said:
people don't care about that sort of stuff, stuff they don't get, they can't master in a weekend &c
or pay someone $3000 to help them "envision"
they care about their gold knobbed paladium finished camera or the new $40,000 light source for their 4000lb enlarger
their ruby and saphire encrusted sink and counter
people want to know what to think, and if you tell them to make believe
they are looking at clouds or seeing a dream and come up with their own meaning for something
they will have your head on a pike and badmouth and argue at you untill they make your tongue fall out
and then for lack of understanding or wanting to attempt to understand
that something can come from the ether or one's soul or a happy accident or purposeful bad technique or ... whatever ...
they will hire someone to put a hex on you, and then follow you around the internet like your private troll,
send you snail hate mail and a horseradish root and fill your internet mail box with stinky rotten food...
unfortunately people take themselves, and their methods of making whatever it is,
perfect prints, imperfect realities ...
or whatever
way too seriously.
and their anger and negative-vibe could be put into a far more productive place, like ... making photographs
and laying off the booze, nicotine, hemp, paint fumes, porn, beetlejuice or whatever else it might be that they
have intoxicated themselves with. life's too short.

sorry craig75 didn'tmean to blabbermouth so much in your thread..

The best equipment will not overcome sloppy or bad technique.

removed account4 · Nov 11, 2017

Craig75 said:
Not at all john. This can be the urgh im going nowhere with what im doing, show me something by someone up to all sorts of mischief thread.

im not sure if can dig those up without gettingmyself in heaps of trouble with angry people / people who
have nothing better to do than be angry over someone who shifts instead of tilts or doesn't care
about circles of confusion or hinge theory or who thinks "cosmic radiation" and the typical requirement to freeze or
refrigerate /store black and white film is bunk.

i'd put technique and perfection in your sock drawer
and just do stuff you have been told never to do ..
you might realize you should, and it might give you insights ..
don't worry about bad technique can allow the you to overcome a "great" camera
..boring clinical/contrasty/sharp lens, and/or auto functions. and if you use this technique
more than once with finesse it is no longer bad technique but technique
don't listen to the chorus or naysayers, because anything can be considered technique,
maybe it is "bad" because the person claiming its bad didn't think of it first?
... or because it isn't written about enough or practiced by someone famous enough &c to be
considered refined ...
there's nothing worse than a perfect boring photograph, its like listening
to the musak version of the sex pistols "god save the queen"
or eating a perfect apple or tomato only to realize it has no flavor.

so in other words ...
create your own technique &c. photography would be one of the most boring endeavors on the planet
if everyone made perfect and boring and technically excellent photographs.

in the words of richard albertine " so what, let it vignette"

rrusso · Nov 11, 2017

Craig75 said:
When i first read about japanese no finder school I thought why?

Do you have a link? I'd like to know more about this - I did a few Google searches but didn't find much.

Craig75 · Nov 11, 2017

rrusso said:
Do you have a link? I'd like to know more about this - I did a few Google searches but didn't find much.

i only read about it in passing in an interview about something else but try this - there may be more info with this search

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="...rome..69i57.9224j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Patrick Robert James · Nov 11, 2017

One thing I have found is that people will try to get you to live by their limitations. You need to find your own. If someone says such and such needs to be done a certain way, aside from the laws of physics, it means that they can only do it that way and they usually don't have the imagination to do it any other way. You won't find out what is good for you by listening to others.

One of the best things I have ever heard from a photographer talking about process was from Avedon. He talked about how he arrived at his white background portraits that are so simple, yet so powerful. He said it was a process of no's. In his case, it simplified things. Find your own process of no's or yeses. When you see a photographer do something original, that is how they got there. That is how you will get there too.

Dull camera work

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