Drying marks driving me mad.

thefizz · Apr 24, 2006

I have never had any problem with drying marks on my film over the years but recently my luck has changed. I am now getting very bad drying marks which I find hard to wash off.

The only think I can think of is that I recently started to use Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent to speed up my washing times. I wash the film for a few minutes then into the HCA for two minutes and then another wash for 5 minutes (as instructed on the HCA packaging).

Would the use of HCA cause these dirty marks on my film? I am not doing anything else different than before.

Regards,
Peter

Dan Henderson · Apr 24, 2006

perhaps try a last rinse in distilled water to remove any minerals in your water that might be causing the marks?

Woolliscroft · Apr 24, 2006

I used to have the same trouble. I got a little domestic chemical water filter and run the final rinse water through it twice. Since then the problem has gone completely. Distilled water works too, but this is cheaper and you can't run out.

David.

Tom Kershaw · Apr 24, 2006

I use the following method to wash my black and white film and hardly ever have problems with drying marks in a very hard water area:

1. Fixer Out.
2. Water into dev tank. 10 agitations.
3. Water out of dev tank.
4. Water into dev tank. 10 agitations.
5. Water out of dev tank.
6. Water into dev tank. 20 agitations.
7. Water out of dev tank.
8. Distilled or De-ionised water into dev tank, with Ilfotol wetting agent. 10 agitations.
9. Film gets hung up to dry with Paterson film clips.

Hope this helps.
Disclaimer: I have only been developing film for 3 years.

thefizz · Apr 24, 2006

I have always used filtered water from a Brita Jug for my final rinse with great success but its only since I started using the HCA that the problem started.

I have just checked two rolls I did last night where I left out the HCA stage and they are fine.

kwmullet · Apr 24, 2006

If the problem should re-occur, check out this home-made dryer that dries the film on the reels. I use it, and a variation for my 4x5 film, and never have problems with drying PLUS film is dry in 20min-half and hour. There's a bit of curl to contend with, but that's easily pressed away for the most part.

Here's the link:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050228212519/http://www.shutterbug.net/features/0902sb_how/

Here's a picture of mine:

-KwM-

Jim Jones · Apr 24, 2006

My tap water is very dirty. I filter the wash water. A final rinse with a couple of drops of Kodak Photo-Flo in 8 ounces of distilled water eliminates spots. After one end of the film is securely clipped to a line, as much as possible of the rinse is shaken off, and a clip on the bottom of the film helps it to dry witout curl. I mix fresh final rinse for every developing session, but others successfully reuse their final rinse.

Lee L · Apr 24, 2006

I live in a place with terrible calcium content in the water. It noticeably shortens the life of appliances and faucets. I've had problems with spotting since moving here, and process and rinse in a combination of distilled and spring water (as opposed to our surface water municipal supply) that is reasonably good, but have still had problems. Using Edwal LFN or Kodak PhotoFlo at prescribed or greater dilutions in distilled water for a last rinse hasn't eliminated the problem. A 2 micron filter that I tested on the municipal supply cut the deposits by about half, but to nowhere near an acceptable level.

On another thread recently someone mentioned an overnight last stand in distilled water. I didn't want to go that long, but found that a one hour stand in 1/2 liter plain distilled water seems to have done the trick on the last couple of rolls. I presume that there is just enough diffusion of the remaining salts into the distilled water over that time. A 30 minute stand time didn't completely solve the problem.

I'm drying in a home-brew PVC + filtered computer fan arrangement similar to Kevin's, without heat.

Lee

Gary Holliday · Apr 24, 2006

I don't think there's any need for HCA unless you're washing FB papers. 10-15 mins in running water, occasionally dumping out "old" water is enough for any film. A couple of dips in photoflo for 30 secs and squeegee with your fingers should be ok.

I live in a soft water area, free from calcium/ iron particles, so you should think of filtering your water if you are in a hard area. Your local water company will make changes to the pipes and the quality of the water, so that's probably why your problem has only arisen.

Any tiny drying marks can be wiped with the oils in your finger or the grease on the side of your nose which my original tutor taught me!

thefizz · Apr 24, 2006

Thanks for all the replys. I think I will stop using the HCA for film as it seems the film I put in it is coming out dirty even after washing and final rinse in filtered water. As I said, the film that I didn't put in the HCA is fine. This is the only conclusion I can come to at present.

Peter

fschifano · Apr 24, 2006

Something is not adding up here. You are supposed to wash the film after treatment with HCA, and apparently you are doing just that. At times I have and have not used HCA on films, but never have had a problem with drying marks that could definitively be traced to HCA's use or disuse. That said, I see very little point to using wash aid on film. It's not like there a fibrous paper support that will hang on to fixer. The film support is impermeable and all you need to do is get the fixer out of the emulsion.

Based upon your description of the problem, the only logical cause of your problem is insufficient washing after treatment in HCA. Five minutes should be enough time, but equally important is that you get a sufficient number of complete water changes in that time. Adjust the flow rate so that you get at least 1 change of water per minute and tip the contents of the container out every so often. See if that doesn't fix it.

thefizz · Apr 24, 2006

I was washing for 5 or more minutes after treatment in HCA but still getting the dirty marks on the film. The last two rolls I did yesterday were not treated in HCA and got a 5 minute wash but they are perfect.

I don't know if the HCA is the problem but it seems my negs are much cleaner when I don't use it.

pentaxuser · Apr 24, 2006

thefizz said:
I was washing for 5 or more minutes after treatment in HCA but still getting the dirty marks on the film. The last two rolls I did yesterday were not treated in HCA and got a 5 minute wash but they are perfect.

I don't know if the HCA is the problem but it seems my negs are much cleaner when I don't use it.

FWIW it seems on the basic question to be applied in problem analysis "what's changed?" your analysis and conclusions are 100% correct. Having said that it's always unsettling to have a problem spring up and even if you solve it there's that nagging doubt about whether its waiting round the corner to jump out again.

pentaxuser

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 24, 2006

Is it a question of permanence to use the HCA? If so I can understand your desire to use it. If not, why try to fix something that's not broken?
The only thing that changed is adding the HCA to the process - well guess what - that's the only logical reason for your problem. If you get clean negs without the HCA, stop using it is all I can say. I had a similar problem, and my idea was to cut back on washing time and save some water. I had to stop as well.

thefizz said:
I was washing for 5 or more minutes after treatment in HCA but still getting the dirty marks on the film. The last two rolls I did yesterday were not treated in HCA and got a 5 minute wash but they are perfect.

I don't know if the HCA is the problem but it seems my negs are much cleaner when I don't use it.

MattKing · Apr 24, 2006

What are you using to mix up the HCA? If it isn't distilled water, that might be the source of the problem.

thefizz · Apr 25, 2006

MattKing said:
What are you using to mix up the HCA? If it isn't distilled water, that might be the source of the problem.

I am mixing the HCA with filtered water.

Drying marks driving me mad.

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