Drying fibre paper

sim · Aug 17, 2007

Hallo,

As a newbie here I sorry if this topic has been covered so many times before but I thought I could pick some of your learned brains for some info !

I have read another thread on here about drying fibre based papers which was useful but I have some specefic questions, so;

I have been printing with fibre paper for about six months now & totally love how it looks & feels compared to RC paper but am having "fun & games" with drying it.

Obviously when drying it on a paterson rack for RC papers it does curl a bit so I have been using a sheet of glass & taping the paper to that with gummed tape. This works well, leaving a slight curl when air dryed with an interesting texture especially after selenium toning.

Thinking of trying to speed up the drying process my thoughts have turned to flat bed dryers. If you have used them can you tell me how they compare to air drying prints (speed aside) & whether the cloth apron thing puts the texture of the cloth onto the surface of the print ie does the cloth affect the print in noticable way ? also what advantage would there be in getting a glazing plate for the device ?

If I went down this route a dryer would be purchaesd new rather than an ebay special with a contaminated cloth.

Any thoughts or assistance greatfully received ( & apologies for such a long question ! )

Cheers
sim.

Steve Smith · Aug 17, 2007

I had my first go at fibre paper a few days ago. I don't have a proper dryer but I followed advice I read about hanging up the prints to dry then, when they are nearly dry, put them between the pages of a heavy book with some interleaving paper.

They came out quite flat (not perfect) but over the next couple of days they started to curl up.

Up to now I have only used RC paper and I don't share some people's objections to it.

The papers I use from Ilford, Kentmere and Fotospeed are quite nice. It's only us photographers who can tell the difference anyway!

Welcome to APUG by the way.

Steve.

ann · Aug 17, 2007

the higher the humidity and the slower the print dries, the flatter it will be when finally dried.

I have never attempted the tape and glass method, but many people love say it really works for them.

we use screens and allow them to dry at their own rate.

it has been years since i have used a flat bed dryer, but your correct with the concerns about a contaminated cloth. On some dryers, they can be removed , washed and replaced.

Jim Jones · Aug 17, 2007

Since I dry mount any print that really matters, hanging FB prints by a corner to air dry suffices. Storing them in a tightly packed box, alternately face up and face down, eventually flattens them.

Derek Lofgreen · Aug 17, 2007

I use a dryer. I tried to air dry my fiber prints but it's so dry here that they curl up into a tube. Talk about curl. I tried hanging them dry and drying them on a screens but nothing worked. I picked up a dryer at a garage sale for $5 and it works like a champ. I don't notice any change of texture in paper but that doesn't mean some paper somewhere will show a change. The prints are nice and flat too. The key is to make sure the print is dry before you try to take it off the dryer and that it is kept spotless.

Hope it helps,
D.

Peter Williams · Aug 17, 2007

Welcome to Apug. I have a dryer like the one you mentioned. I never got the results that I was looking for from it, it takes up a lot of room and really heats up the darkroom - especially in the summer. There are a lot of threads here with many suggestions on how to flatten fiber prints, so check them out. You won't see an awful lot of them suggesting this type of dryer. I think that your money would be better spent elsewhere.

Monophoto · Aug 17, 2007

Sim -

Drying FB paper is generally more of a challenge than drying RC paper. You have to expect that it will take longer to dry, and if you really need faster turnaround, then RC is probably a better choice.

I dry my prints on fiberglass screens. I made a set of frames from "one by" lumber, and then stretched screening over them, stapling it to the bottom of the frame. I have a rack in my darkroom under the sink that provides about 2" between screens. Before building the rack, I simply stacked the screens - prints still dried, but they took longer.

With normal humidity, prints will dry sufficiently in 24 hours to be able to stack them. In drier weather (winter), they will be dry in 12 hours. And if that is too long, I can set up a fan to blow air over the screens to dry prints in 4-6 hours.

I first lay out my prints on a sheet of glass, initially face down to squeegee the back, and then flip them over to squeegee the front. Then I place them on the screens face down. I've never had a problem with the screen pattern transferring to the face of the print.

Prints tend to be slightly curly after they are dry. I use a heat press to flatten them - and that also leaves them thoroughly dry. However, after heating them, they will absorb moisture from the atmosphere and will curl just a bit, so I put them face down on a dry, dustfree counter to cool.

Thomas Bertilsson · Aug 17, 2007

I have one of the dryers you're talking about, and I use it when I quickly need to dry a print, for scanning or whatever. If you buy one, make sure it has a cloth that can be replaced, like Ann suggests.
My method is to dry on screens. Squeegee first, then dry face down (important), and once they're completely dry I remove them and place them between glassine sheets in a VERY heavy book, preferably one that has ten prints in it already because that helps even more. Then I stack about fifty pounds worth of other books on top, and I store them like this for about 24 hours. Then I take them out, continue to keep them between glassine sheets in storage boxes where they rest with lots of other prints. I place the newest ones on the bottom. The storage method is a good idea regardless of drying method. I have neat stacks of straight prints. I live in Minnesota so it's very humid in the summer and very dry in the winter.
- Thomas

Paul Howell · Aug 17, 2007

You can dry on screen, I sandwich my prints between 2 screens with each sandwich stacked one on another with a 1 inch spacer been the racks. I dry on my patio, here is the desert it takes only a 1/2 hour for a print to dry. I also use a ferrotype plate dryer when I want a high gloss finish. You can also use a blotter book.

TheFlyingCamera · Aug 17, 2007

Another vote for screens. I have a set of the Calumet drying screens which work great. My prints have little curl when dried on screens.

Andrew Moxom · Aug 17, 2007

I dry fiber prints face down on screens, and place another screen on top which further minimizes any curl. Then dried prints are placed into a large book with 100% cotton rag pages that was meant to be an artist sketch pad, and leave them in there for a day, and the prints are pretty much flat. Larger than 11 x 14 and finding large books becomes a problem. As I only usually print 8 x 10 it's not an issue. When I do go larger, I am not usually printing that many at this size as that is used generally when I sell a print. I might make 5 prints of the same size when printing to sell and use screens as before, but then place them between some sheets of museum board I have stashed, then add weight to that for the final flattening. Improvisation is the name of the game.

John Kasaian · Aug 17, 2007

I air dry or leave them in a blotter book overnight, then once through a dry mount press to flatten.

jeroldharter · Aug 17, 2007

Numerous threads on this topic.

I got away from screens because of intermittent problems with the screen pattern embossing on the wet emulsion of the prints. Also, they take up real estate and have to be cleaned periodically.

I use a retractable, vinyl covered clothesline and small metal clamps to hang dry prints. If I have several, I clamp them back to back.

This works very well, is clean, lwo maintenance, no embossing, fewer issues with dust because the prints are not lying flat and works for me.

No matter how you dry them, you will have some curl. That is the nature of the beast. After I dry them, I usually store them in a box until I have a chance to run them through my dry mount press for 2 minutes sandwiched in release paper and mounting board. At that point, they are quite flat but still have a bit of a curl.

I would not like a platen style dryer having fussed with one years ago.

In my experience, the type of paper makes a big difference. Kentmere dries with good flatness. Zone VI on the other hand curls like a pretzal and is hard to uncurl sufficiently to get in the press.

Maine-iac · Aug 18, 2007

sim said:
Hallo,

Obviously when drying it on a paterson rack for RC papers it does curl a bit so I have been using a sheet of glass & taping the paper to that with gummed tape. This works well, leaving a slight curl when air dryed with an interesting texture especially after selenium toning.

Thinking of trying to speed up the drying process my thoughts have turned to flat bed dryers. If you have used them can you tell me how they compare to air drying prints (speed aside) & whether the cloth apron thing puts the texture of the cloth onto the surface of the print ie does the cloth affect the print in noticable way ? also what advantage would there be in getting a glazing plate for the device ?

If I went down this route a dryer would be purchaesd new rather than an ebay special with a contaminated cloth.

Any thoughts or assistance greatfully received ( & apologies for such a long question ! )

Cheers
sim.

The best and cheapest method of print drying fiber-based prints is one that I picked up from some magazine article many years ago. Still works great.

Get about a 5-foot length of 1-inch diameter wooden dowel (like the ones that are found in some closets for hanging clothes on), cut it in half. Then get a roll of plastic window screening about 2 feet or 30 inches wide and twice as long as you intend your drying screen to be. Mine is slightly shorter than the length of my darkroom--roughly 8 feet. Staple one end of the screening to one dowel along it's length. Stretch it out to it's full length and wrap it around the second dowel and staple it. Then bring it back to the first dowel and staple the end. You now have a long (mine's about 8 feet) drying rack made of two layers of plastic screening.

Put an eye hook in each end in the middle of the dowel. Put corresponding eye hooks in the walls of your darkroom above your sink or wherever you have a place large enough. Use bungee cords on each eyehook to connect the screen to the wall.

Voila! For less than ten dollars, you have a print drying rack that will air dry your prints relatively flat. The paper is sandwiched between the two layers of screen which prevents it from curling. I first squeegee excess water off the prints with an old windshield wiper blade on a piece of formica-covered board, then place them face down on the bottom screen. The top screen may or may not touch the back of the print, but no matter. I can do about 20-30 8X10's at once on mine. Leave a little air space between prints. When you're done, you can just take it down, roll it up and set it aside till the next time you need it. No need to clutter up counter space or use electricity with a dryer. I've never had a problem with the screen pattern embossing the print, nor with contamination. If your prints are washed well, there's no concern about contamination. You can always give it a wipe once in awhile with a damp sponge moistened with a weak chlorox solution it you're concerned about contamination, but I've never experienced any.

Cheers,
Larry

dancqu · Aug 18, 2007

jeroldharter said:
No matter how you dry them, you will have some curl.

It might be a good idea to distinguish twixt curl and
what might be called warp or ?. I don't recall ever seeing
a FB print fresh out of it's drying environment which did not
display some curl. The paper is flat but pulls in an uniform
manor toward it's emulsion side so that it resembles a
cylindrical section of some large diameter.

My method is an update of one still used but more
so in years gone by. The two ingredients are ventilator
grade corrugated board and hydrophobic separators. The
stack or sandwich builds from the bottom with first a board
then separator-prints-separator-board and so on up. I call it
a corrugated board stack dryer.

Actually I free air dry prints; warp or ? and all. After I've
accumulated quite a few I re-wet then sponge dry. With the
ultra-light weight stack dryer ingredients on the counter I begin
interleaving and build the stack which is topped with about eight
pounds of well placed proper sized magazines. The gently dried
prints take about one week.

For more details and sources search this NG for, salthill ,
and for, corrugated board . Dan

Gary Holliday · Aug 19, 2007

I keep things simple.

Hang to dry or use a cheap Paterson drying rack if I run out of space. A warm room speeds things up.

Place prints between a cheap plastic clip frame with blotting paper when almost dry.

Place something heavy on top of the clip frame.

Robert T. McCarthy · Aug 19, 2007

I have a flatbed dryer and normally I sandwich the print between butchers paper. Not the kind with the waxy surface but with the type a butcher wraps with after your cold cuts have been wrapped with the waxy type. Works good and of course I wash each print to archival standards before placing the sandwiched print on the dryer.

Regards.

Bob

Richard Jepsen · Aug 19, 2007

I try to keep everything simple. Overnight, I dry washed, fiber prints, face up on top of photo wipe (green) tissues. Prints dry curled. I place dried prints between the pages of an appropriately sized book. Place a few books on top of the book with prints. About four hours later the print is flat, similar to using a hot mount press with the exception of occasional waviness on the very edge of larger prints. The occasional edge frill may be due to too long or warm a wash.

Neanderman · Aug 19, 2007

I dry my FB prints by hanging two prints, back to back, clipped on all for corners, hanging by two. I use wooden clothespins, which will leave small marks on the corners, but that doesn't bother me as I window mat everything. My drying lines are heavy duty nylon fishing line, strung taut.

Ed

sim · Aug 20, 2007

Wow - thanks for so many replies, most welcome ! Going to have a read of them all & maybe post more info thoughts later. But many thanks for all your input.

cheers
sim.

Jim Jones · Aug 20, 2007

Decades ago, while in the Navy, I would lay fiber prints on my cot, cover them with a sheet and blanket, and leave them until dry. The weight of the blanket would keep them fairly flat. Proper storage would finish the job. Of course they would still curl when removed from storage, depending on the humidity.

Drying fibre paper

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