Drying fiber based papers using Paterson RC print drying rack

pkr1979 · Oct 15, 2023

Hi all,

I've been making fiber based prints only once. When it comes to drying them, does anyone know if there is any reason this shouldn't be used to do dry them (as it appears to be specified for rc-papers):

Print Drying Rack – Paterson Photographic Equipment

Worldwide Paterson is best known for the high quality darkroom equipment it manufactures here in the UK. In the late 80s it also took over the manufacture of Benbo Tripods and has continued to develop this range of tripods, beloved by both Landscape and Natural History Photographers.

www.patersonphotographic.com

?

Cheers
Peter

Anon Ymous · Oct 15, 2023

RC paper is stiff and dries flat. FB on the other hand is floppy and curls badly. If you let it dry there, it will take whatever form it can and will be very hard to flatten.

Xylo · Oct 15, 2023

The rack is definitely not recommended for FB paper.
It's way better to either use a drying screen, blotter book, print dryer or even squeegeeing the image on a very clean sheet of glass and letting it dry until it self-detaches from it.

pkr1979 · Oct 16, 2023

Thanks for the feedback. How do you guys dry them?

Rick A · Oct 16, 2023

I use a Kodak print drying blotter roll, only good for up to 8x10's, I've given away all my heated dryers since I mostly make alt prints these days.

Anon Ymous · Oct 16, 2023

pkr1979 said:
Thanks for the feedback. How do you guys dry them?

I don't. I mean, I don't print optically, so it's not a problem for me.

Anyway, there are many ways of doing it, but there's perhaps the easiest way of getting a flat fb print and it involves a glass pane, patience and some gummy tape. After the print is thoroughly washed it is placed on a sheet of glass face up and excess water is removed. You then use the gummy tape to stick it on the glass, which obviously assumes you have left a generous border around the photo. You leave it there until totally dry and cut/trim the print.

snusmumriken · Oct 16, 2023

Anon Ymous said:
I don't. I mean, I don't print optically, so it's not a problem for me.

Anyway, there are many ways of doing it, but there's perhaps the easiest way of getting a flat fb print and it involves a glass pane, patience and some gummy tape. After the print is thoroughly washed it is placed on a sheet of glass face up and excess water is removed. You then use the gummy tape to stick it on the glass, which obviously assumes you have left a generous border around the photo. You leave it there until totally dry and cut/trim the print.

I tried that - once. Don't let me prejudice you, but it seemed the most painful way possible of achieving a flat print!

I lay mine face-up on home-made screens of insect mesh propped at a slight angle, wipe gently with a car windscreen wiper, and leave about 24 hrs. When they are dry enough to support their own weight when picked up by the edges (i.e. not floppy), I turn them face-down for another 24 hours. Then stack them together neatly, place on a flat surface under a thick sheet of glass, and pile books on top. Leave for several days, then trim curly edges.

koraks · Oct 16, 2023

snusmumriken said:
I lay mine face-up on home-made screens of insect mesh propped at a slight angle, wipe gently with a car windscreen wiper, and leave about 24 hrs. When they are dry enough to support their own weight when picked up by the edges (i.e. not floppy), I turn them face-down for another 24 hours. Then stack them together neatly, place on a flat surface under a thick sheet of glass, and pile books on top. Leave for several days, then trim curly edges.

That works, but the glass sheet & gummed tape approach suggested by @Anon Ymous is quicker and gives superior flatness since the paper really pulls taut in that case. The weighted down approach always gives me slightly wavy prints in the end that are just not quite as nice and flat as the tensioned ones I get when using gummed tape. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'painful'. It just works. I was visiting a professional printer last week and I noticed he finished his prints for customers in the gummed-taped fashion. Apparently he doesn't consider the approach very painful, either...

The main drawback of the gummed tape approach IMO is that you need to trim off the edges with the tape on them since there's no way to remove the tape without damaging the paper & gelatin underneath. Or of course simply matt over the edges.

A heated press is of course nice, but takes up a lot of space and they tend to be rather expensive and sought after these days.

pkr1979 said:
How do you guys dry them?

On a clothes line with a clip on one corner for smallish prints (op to 11x14 or so) or two corners for larger ones (>11x14"). Screens work well, too, but take up more space and I don't find the result when dried on a flat surface any superior to just hanging them up to dry. YMMV.

logan2z · Oct 16, 2023

snusmumriken said:
I lay mine face-up on home-made screens of insect mesh propped at a slight angle, wipe gently with a car windscreen wiper, and leave about 24 hrs. When they are dry enough to support their own weight when picked up by the edges (i.e. not floppy), I turn them face-down for another 24 hours. Then stack them together neatly, place on a flat surface under a thick sheet of glass, and pile books on top. Leave for several days, then trim curly edges.

You may want to try placing the prints face down on the screens. I used to be concerned about doing that as I'd heard some people say the screens left an impression in the print surface, but on the recommendation of someone here I started doing it and have never had such a problem. My prints dry much flatter when drying them emulsion side down so it is a lot easier to finish the flattening process in my dry mount press once the print is dry.

snusmumriken · Oct 16, 2023

koraks said:
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'painful'.

I mean that it exhausted my patience! I know it works in principle, because I can stretch watercolour paper that way. For photos, I found it quite easy to get the gummy tape to stick to the glass, but the print had to be slightly dry already, otherwise it pulled off the tape. And of course, you need enough glass to tape all the prints you have just made. And you have to clean all the tape and glue off the glass afterwards.

logan2z said:
You may want to try placing the prints face down on the screens. I used to be concerned about doing that as I'd heard some people say the screens left an impression in the print surface, but on the recommendation of someone here I started doing it and have never had such a problem. My prints dry much flatter when drying them emulsion side down so it is a lot easier to finish the flattening process in my dry mount press once the print is dry.

Yes, if you check my post, you'll see that I do both, in sequence. I have had screen marks on the prints if I start off face-down. The face-down stage certainly improves flattening.

To the OP: it will be obvious to you that each of us is a passionate advocate for our preferred way, and scorns any other! Well, you did ask. Think of them as alternative ideas for you to consider. Good luck.

mshchem · Oct 16, 2023

Pretty hard to manage today's double weight fiber prints without dry mounting. I have a couple of the big old Pako drum dryers, these do a pretty good job of producing a relatively flat print.

Hanging back to back seems to work. Don't over dry. Print flattening solutions work but it leaves glycol in the paper base.........

The endless struggle.

mshchem · Oct 16, 2023

koraks · Oct 16, 2023

snusmumriken said:
I mean that it exhausted my patience! I know it works in principle, because I can stretch watercolour paper that way. For photos, I found it quite easy to get the gummy tape to stick to the glass, but the print had to be slightly dry already, otherwise it pulled off the tape. And of course, you need enough glass to tape all the prints you have just made. And you have to clean all the tape and glue off the glass afterwards.

I see what you mean. Yes, it's a bit of a chore, but it isn't so bad.
When I squeegee the prints, they're dry enough by the time I get to them with the tape to get the tape to adhere well. The trick is to not flood the tape with water too much. I run it over a wet sponge.

For removal, I cut the prints loose and then place the glass on a level surface. That way I can just pour some water onto the tape, let it rest for 10 minutes and then pull off the tape. Run a sponge over the glue remnants and then squeegee the glass, and it's ready to go.

You're right about the amount of glass needed, of course. I generally only do a couple of prints at a time this way.

snusmumriken · Oct 16, 2023

koraks said:
I see what you mean. Yes, it's a bit of a chore, but it isn't so bad.
When I squeegee the prints, they're dry enough by the time I get to them with the tape to get the tape to adhere well. The trick is to not flood the tape with water too much. I run it over a wet sponge.

For removal, I cut the prints loose and then place the glass on a level surface. That way I can just pour some water onto the tape, let it rest for 10 minutes and then pull off the tape. Run a sponge over the glue remnants and then squeegee the glass, and it's ready to go.

You're right about the amount of glass needed, of course. I generally only do a couple of prints at a time this way.

For the record, how wide a margin do you leave to get a good grip on the paper with the tape? The tape I have is 48 mm, so - what - half of that: 24mm / 1 inch?

koraks · Oct 16, 2023

No, a lot less. Around 5mm does the trick for me. That's for prints up to 8x10. Larger prints may need up to 8 or 10mm.

chuckroast · Oct 16, 2023

I print exclusively on fiber papers and have done so for 5 decades. So ... I shall be the curmudgeon here and contradict some of the others' advice given. I do this noting that there are many ways to solve a problem. However...

When a print is done, I hang it for a few minutes to let the water drain off.
I never EVER put anything in contact with a wet emulsion. Not a squeegee, not a blotter book - nothing. Wet emulsions are delicate and can easily be damaged.
I lay prints face up on drying screens which is the opposite of what you are told to do. Why? Because I don't want there to be any chance for the wet emulsion to be contaminated or damaged by a screen. I wash the screen from time to time.
When dry, the prints will be curly with some possible ripples. The fix? Put them in a dry mounting press for a few minutes and voila' flat prints.

By the way, you can easily make your own drying screen by stretching new nylon window screen
material over a wooden frame.

GregY · Oct 16, 2023

chuckroast said:
I print exclusively on fiber papers and have done so for 5 decades. So ... I shall be the curmudgeon here and contradict some of the others' advice given. I do this noting that there are many ways to solve a problem. However...

When a print is done, I hang it for a few minutes to let the water drain off.

I never EVER put anything in contact with a wet emulsion. Not a squeegee, not a blotter book - nothing. Wet emulsions are delicate and can easily be damaged.

I lay prints face up on drying screens which is the opposite of what you are told to do. Why? Because I don't want there to be any chance for the wet emulsion to be contaminated or damaged by a screen. I wash the screen from time to time.

When dry, the prints will be curly with some possible ripples. The fix? Put them in a dry mounting press for a few minutes and voila' flat prints.

By the way, you can easily make your own drying screen by stretching new nylon window screen
material over a wooden frame.

Likewise. I did for a while put them face down, but did get some screen impressions. Face up since then. Then the drymount press for a minute or two and then under plate glass while they cool. Getting/having the right equipment makes you wonder why you struggled with other methods.

logan2z · Oct 16, 2023

GregY said:
Likewise. I did for a while put them face down, but did get some screen impressions. Face up since then. Then the drymount press for a minute or two and then under plate glass while they cool. Getting/having the right equipment makes you wonder why you struggled with other methods.

I dried face up for the longest time but switched to face down on the suggestion of someone on the forum and never had an issue with screen impressions. When I dried my prints face up they curled a lot which made it difficult to flatten them in my dry mount press. They curl a lot less when dried face down.

But, as always, whatever works best for you...

reddesert · Oct 17, 2023

BITD (like the 1980s) when I learned to print, I had a terrible time getting fiber based prints to dry flat, blotter books, etc. There were always pieces of advice that began it's not so hard with this foolproof method, and ended with "dry mount press." Which at the time was a large, quite expensive piece. Eventually one of my college friends (now a professional photographer/videographer) said, "Look, just use RC paper."

Print dryers, the kind with metal drum and canvas stretcher, have some issues in use AFAIK but also sometimes turn up essentially free these days.

pkr1979 · Oct 17, 2023

I'll try the rack and flatten them later:

GRHazelton · Oct 17, 2023

See this from PhotoTrio some years ago: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/glycerin-print-flattening-solution.161571/
A dilute solution of propylene glycol, which is food safe, should also work. Both the glycerine and poly would make the paper slightly hygroscopic and thus less prone to curling. But as always, YMMV.

koraks · Oct 17, 2023

GRHazelton said:
Both the glycerine and poly would make the paper slightly hygroscopic and thus less prone to curling.

Yes. But this also brings questions about long-term stability and propensity of the prints to grow mold etc.

Drying fiber based papers using Paterson RC print drying rack

pkr1979

Print Drying Rack – Paterson Photographic Equipment

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Drying fiber based papers using Paterson RC print drying rack

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