Drydown Visualization Problem: Microwave vs. Toaster Oven.

Hello everyone. I've been doing some late-night printing, and am getting some odd results with rapid-drying of prints in my toaster oven. I was wondering if there is a difference in percentage between that and a microwave - and if both were markedly diffferent from air-drying. I'm finding that my paper (forte polygrade, dektol 2.5 min dev time) is shifting (subtly) towards the brown when I rapid dry in the toaster oven. Additionally - I seem to get some slight - 'banding' - across the image. It's subtle - but it seems ever so slightly different from my air-dried finished prints. I was wondering if someone else out there has seen any other similar effects...(?)

thanks.

sample

Here's a scan of my result - just so you know more specifically what I'm talking about...

I thought toasters were supposed to turn stuff brown?

well a Toaster Oven is certainly one way to get a WARM TONE print. Try the microwave, it works for me and it certainly worked for Ansel.

The "banding" looks like it coincides with the rack you set your prints on in the Toaster Oven

Yes - this is precisely what happens when you leave a print in the oven while you read apug messages! Just thought I'd post that as a joke - before anyone takes it too seriously..! Yes - that'd be a rack!

DRY WHAT??

I'm going to post this again as I have in the past and maybe someone will actually benefit from it. Get yourself a copy of Bruce Barnbaum's book "THE ART OF PHOTOGRAPHY-AN APPROACH TO PERSONAL EXPRESSION" JUST BECAUSE EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS BOOK AT LEAST ONCE-anyway from this book I came to SEE the light (that's a joke) that what we really have is DRY-UP!!
For years I was suckered into believing that drydown actually exists. And it does if you use the wrong lighting and methodology. Just use a clamp light with an aluminum shade and a 60 watt bulb. Get a piece of plexiglass and a sqeegee. I also put a variable output on the lamp line for convenience. Keep the lamp about 3-4 feet from where you will view the print. Make your first test print. Say 15 seconds. Then put it on the plexiglass and sqeegee it off. The trick is to keep the light ouput just low enough to see the blacks properly. Most people use too much light and then wonder why they experience drydown. I tried the microwave but quickly saw that it too was nonsence. You can always LEAVE the darkroom for a hot minute and examine the print in daylight. Or turn the bigger lights on in the darkroom for a quick reference point. I mean-you are going to show the print in REAL light at some point.
Remember to sqeegee the print. That will give you the drydown look you are trying to accomplish. With the variable thingy you will be able to find the right setting for that particular print to get the blacks right

There is actually a backside to this that is also explained in the book-and that is to proof your negs with the #1 filter. As soon as I started to do this-guess what-much more balanced prints and a MUCH faster time in realizing where I wanted to go with the print. The #1 proof is slightly flat so it is easy to build contrast by going up. But if you are proofing with #2 paper or filter then you will have NO reference point. Try this and see for yourself. I proofed ala Fred Picker on #2 paper for 100 years and as soon as I changed my prints were not so dreadfully dark and so much easier to print. THIS AND USING THE ABOVE METHOD FOR VIEWING WILL CHANGE YOUR PRINTMAKING FOREVER!!!
If anyone is close to Connecticut and soon Florida I would be more than happy to show you in person.
Best, Peter

Sparky said:

Yes - this is precisely what happens when you leave a print in the oven while you read apug messages! Just thought I'd post that as a joke - before anyone takes it too seriously..! Yes - that'd be a rack!

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"Rack"... RACK ?!?!... Where is this gir....

Oh! Print in a toaster oven! .....

Never mind.

Obviously your technique needs some tweaking.

I would doublecheck your timer an consider switching to an RH Designs Toastmaster which should help.

Also, I hear that Tim Rudman has a good book about this.

If you post this in the Soap Box you will learn that George Bush had something to do with it and that any civilized country would nationalize the toaster oven industry to protect the witless public from this sort of tragedy.

Kind of a cool split tone nonetheless, though, eh? I gotta look into it.

It's like a graduated filter with a bit of jailtime.

Wonder what would happen with a light spread of butter before toasting the print? Anyone know if this would work any better with R/C paper?
Is that a static discharge mark across the print Sparky, certainly adds atmosphere? Sorry this is all questions, but this could be the way to go.

"Set it, and forget it...!"

If you had used the George Forman Grille, you could have captured the molten gelatin emulsion in the handy drip tray.

Personally, I've had problems on RC paper with the emulsion bubbling up in the microwave. So I use a small hair dryer/heat gun in the darkroom to quick-dry the prints after squeegeeing.

Dave Miller said:

Wonder what would happen with a light spread of butter before toasting the print? Anyone know if this would work any better with R/C paper?
Is that a static discharge mark across the print Sparky, certainly adds atmosphere? Sorry this is all questions, but this could be the way to go.

Click to expand...

Actually dave - that's the break where I folded the brittle print in half before sending it flying into the trash - but I retrieved it because I thought it would be (somwhat) amusing to post it here.

As dismissive as we can be about a 'toasted print' - there are actually some fairly valuable lessons in doing so. It is generally taken as an excellent indicator in the materials testing world - to bake materials to see exactly how they will age. Baking and aging are nearly identical processes, chemically speaking. You can get a very good sense for how a print will fare in a hundred years by doing so - and probably get a pretty good gauge as to the effectiveness of your 'archival' processing methods.

Sparky said:

Baking and aging are nearly identical processes,

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Unfortunately, I think a lot of married guys are so inept in the kitchen that they might not distinguish between baking and frying. Especially, if like me, although aged, I do not feel baked. Half-baked sometimes, but rarely well done...except when I really try.

Sorry, the above silly comment was lamely made to achieve my 1900th post which is now behind me. Whew....!

Ahhhh, the smell of toasting gelatin. Makes me hungry.

A hotplate does the same thing to liquid gelatin. It turns toasty brown and gives off a rich meaty odor - for a while. Then it smells like burning eggs, and finally you want to leave the darkroom.



PE

jovo said:

Sorry, the above silly comment was lamely made to achieve my 1900th post which is now behind me. Whew....!

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it's cool. I thought it was kinda funny....!

Peter Schrager said:

If anyone is close to Connecticut and soon Florida I would be more than happy to show you in person.
Best, Peter

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Peter I may take you up on your offer, I'm just north of Manhattan

Egad! Take five minutes and four sheets of paper and learn it for life.

Make a reference print, and three more at -5, -7 and -10 percent. Mark the minus percentage on the back. Wash and fry the minuses, keep the reference wet. When dry, compare. One will be a perfect match or "close enough" so you can interpolate. Write the percentage on a card and tack it next to the enlarger. Voila. No more microwave or toaster. From then on, make the best print you can wet, and then apply your drydown percentage to your final prints. No fuss no muss.

I did this test with 12 or so different papers several years ago. I still have a big box with all the test prints. In fact, you can redunk the reference and look at them all over, if you really are stuck for something to do.

Peter, I love ya, man, but I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm gonna try it, though, because Peter Schrager's expertise is proven by his outstanding craft. See you at your opening!

For what it's worth, during the summer I personally enjoy tossing a few prints on the barbie......

Jaan

I'm with Peter on the plexi viewing surface (at an angle, so if you stand back a few feet, you are looking straight on at it). Also, it helps to keep the one low wattage light from coming into your eyes (I use a shade to block it from my eyes, but a baseball cap works too). Once I found the right brightness level for the viewing light (about 25 years ago), it seems to work with all the papers I've used (all neutral tone).

dry down

Early Riser come on up to CT. just let me know. Bruce-I just finished making 25 AZO prints for the show. I never even thought about drydown and this is really the first time I used AZO. All I can say is that if the light is done at the proper spectrum then there is NO drydown. Sometimes I also turn on the light in the darkroom where I have full spectrum bulbs. It's easy to fool yourself but if you do it you will see it works. I printed TOO dark for years and years and when I see prints from other people doing the same thing I have to wonder... I still hold to the issue that everyone should at least read the Barnbaum book once. Afterwards I wasn't a darkroom wimp anymore!! that refers to where he mentions letting go of making test stripes. And I learned to make test strips at Fred Pickers side. But sometimes you gotta let go of the old ways and try the new...
Best, Peter