Dry Mounting Supplies?

Danner · Mar 15, 2021

Whelp, I just received a dry mount press and mounted and 8x10 FB print on a piece of 11x14 Walmart foam core as a test, and it worked freaking great. I am totally pumped to start cranking out dry-mounted photographs, which will all be fiber-base silver gelatin prints in 8x10, 11x14 and 16x20.

Looking for advice on what mounting materials you-people are happy with, such as foam core, back-board, mat board, dry mount tissue, and such? Maybe frames and glass too. I will make a bulk purchase to stock-up and don't want to head down the wrong alley, so to speak.

Thank you for your thoughts.

- Dan

Pieter12 · Mar 15, 2021

I wouldn't recommend foam core.

mshchem · Mar 15, 2021

I've still got flat files full of Light Impressions mat boards. I agree that dry mounting is the only way to display a print. If you are worried about archival, make an extra print and put it in a dark drawer.

eddie · Mar 15, 2021

I get most of my tissue, release paper, and linen tape from: https://www.unitedmfrs.com/

Don_ih · Mar 15, 2021

I use mat board for dry mounting. Foam core seems a bit too temporary (how long will the foam last?).

eddie · Mar 15, 2021

Don Heisz said:
I use mat board for dry mounting. Foam core seems a bit too temporary (how long will the foam last?).

I don't know how long, but I have prints which were mounted on archival foam core for over 40 years which haven't degraded.

Greg Kriss · Mar 15, 2021

Personally I use 4 ply mats (8 ply if professionally cut), print mounted on 2 ply board, and use foam core for the backing board.

Don_ih · Mar 15, 2021

eddie said:
I don't know how long, but I have prints which were mounted on archival foam core for over 40 years which haven't degraded.

Archival probably not from Walmart, though.

eddie · Mar 15, 2021

Not Walmart. I order 25 -32x40 sheets at a time from United Manufacturers, or a local wholesaler.

Nicholas Lindan · Mar 15, 2021

Greg Kriss said:
Personally I use 4 ply mats (8 ply if professionally cut), print mounted on 2 ply board, and use foam core for the backing board.

Ditto.

If you use Neilsen style frames do not use the spring clips that come with the frame - the clips cause the mat and the mount to distort in wavy patterns.

Danner · Mar 15, 2021

eddie said:
I get most of my tissue, release paper, and linen tape from: https://www.unitedmfrs.com/

Bookmarked, and [beerclink]

Danner · Mar 15, 2021

Greg Kriss said:
Personally I use 4 ply mats (8 ply if professionally cut), print mounted on 2 ply board, and use foam core for the backing board.

Thank you for sharing your set-up, that all makes sense. [beerclink]

MattKing · Mar 15, 2021

Frame Destination were advertisers here for a long time, participated in the threads, and are Texas based:
https://www.framedestination.com/

Peter Schrager · Mar 16, 2021

Lodima.com sells highest quality Matt board and will cut mats for you too
I only use 2 ply board now for mounting...4 ply fills up a box too quickly
Paula from Lodi is the best!!

DREW WILEY · Mar 16, 2021

There are all kinds of foam board. Generally, the highest quality types are not going to be found at either art stores of do-it-yourself outlets, and need to be purchased in full case quantities from either framing or signage supply wholesalers. Certain very smooth flat kinds of foam-core boards are used for cold mounting using special acrylic adhesive foils and roller machines. But the artstore varieties are generally only good for supplemental backing board. Actual drymounting is different and generally done on what is termed ragboard or museum board, which is getting expensive these days. One of the best brands is Rising, the board sold by Archival Methods is very similar. Some of the lesser brands are either too soft and hydroscopic, or too uneven in thickness to reliably cut matching window over-mats from. For mounting tissues I formerly used an old industry standard, Seal Colormount, which became Neschen brand, and then DK; but now I use another high quality equivalent, Drytac Trimount. You need the same distinct technique or workflow. Pre-dry your museum board and the print itself brief in the press slightly before final permanent mounting.

Danner · Mar 16, 2021

Thanks for the subsequent replies. Drew, that's useful information. I note that Freestyle carries the Drytac in various sizes.

Peter, that lodima.com website doesn't load, maybe a typo?

Matt, thanks for the framedestination link. Garland isn't too far from me, BTW.

On another point, it looks like a mat board should be bought in 32x40 sheets, where I use my own mat cutter.

Anyway, still ponding my shopping options...

DREW WILEY · Mar 16, 2021

I'm going to have to set up new wholesale accounts for matboard, specifically Rising Museum Board. To get good prices, I'd needed to buy at least full 25-sheet packs of 32X40 4-ply. Getting good prices on acrylic plastic is also quite important unless the projects are just incidental. We had three major pro framing suppliers right here in the SF Bay area. The demand is still huge, and there's even a big wholesale framer in this town that I myself supplied with specialized equipment before I retired. They've done big welded frames for more ordinary frame shop clients costing up to $40,000 apiece. But what has happened all around here is "gentrification" - all kinds of commercial spaces have given way to expensive high-rise condos for techies and fru-fru ground-floor retail spaces. In this case, entire warehouses were leveled just for sake of selling the land. In some places, the land itself can go for sixty or a hundred million dollars an acre - and that's in warehouse districts, not downtowns! So all kinds of supplies and services are no longer available in this area. Wholesale picture framing stuff has to be shipped up from LA. If I ever have to set up big shows again, I'm going to buy an Esterly Speed Mat cutter. Those probably run around $4,000 now. Regular linear cutters are just too hard on my old fingers for mat after mat after mat. But my old top of the line Logan is still adequate for casual use. I'm still behind about a hundred prints in terms of drymounting; but it's almost color printing season for me; so they'll have to wait.

eddie · Mar 16, 2021

Danner said:
.On another point, it looks like a mat board should be bought in 32x40 sheets, where I use my own mat cutter.

Another advantage to cutting your own is the ability to use the windows for smaller mats. With the cost of quality board, getting the maximum use out of a sheet is important.

MattKing · Mar 16, 2021

I don't have the equipment or space to cut larger than 16x20, but it is still really worthwhile to do that.

eddie · Mar 16, 2021

DREW WILEY said:
I'm going to have to set up new wholesale accounts for matboard, specifically Rising Museum Board.

I've had issues getting my preferred boards also. I usually use Rising Warm White 4 ply. My local wholesaler has had issues getting it, and it appears my normal mail order company doesn't have it.

eddie · Mar 16, 2021

MattKing said:
I don't have the equipment or space to cut larger than 16x20, but it is still really worthwhile to do that.

Even starting from 16x20, it can be worthwhile if you also mat to 5x7, and 8x10.

Danner · Mar 16, 2021

One thing is becoming quite clear, the cost of producing, say an 11x14 print, mounted, matted, and framed, has a substantial cost of good sold! Not too mention what it costs to produce a quality 11x14 FB print. Gives me a new prospective on what photographers are asking for their works at the regional art fairs I visit. I'm thinking that the prints need to be offered in mounted and matted form, in a plastic sleeve and leave it at that.

DREW WILEY · Mar 17, 2021

I was strictly a large format color photographer for about ten years. I was already good at b&w sheet film development because I routinely did that for color printing masking. But then I decided to fool around a lot with actual black and white shooting because high-end color printing was getting to be so expensive. Now it's the other way around! When you factor not only the cost premium fiber-based b&w papers but also museum board for drymounting, color printing is now actually cheaper, at least RA4 style from color negs. Of course, a full nine yards presentation in frame still adds up. But frankly, black and white prints just don't look complete until they're properly trimmed and mounted. I consider the drymounting step integral to the composition itself. Color prints need to be mounted in an entirely different manner. The bigger problem is that I can't help myself ... I love both kinds of media, and am addicted to shooting and printing both. Color sheet film per se is getting nutty expensive, especially in 8X10 size, but the cost of printing paper itself is reasonable, even in very big sizes.

ParkerSmithPhoto · Mar 17, 2021

Peter Schrager said:
Lodima.com sells highest quality Matt board and will cut mats for you too
I only use 2 ply board now for mounting...4 ply fills up a box too quickly
Paula from Lodi is the best!!

I was able to view some of Michael Smith's original prints and, to my knowledge, he mounted everything on 2ply. It's a really nice feel, not as sturdy as 4 ply but you don't feel like it's going to bend or crease on you. BTW, his prints are incredibly beautiful, some of the nicest I've ever seen, dead neutral blacks.

Also: 1/2 price of 4 ply! I buy museum board and jumping from a $2.50 2-ply mount (16x20) to a $5 4-ply ain't cheap.

DREW WILEY · Mar 17, 2021

2-ply is too thin for anything but relatively small prints. Michael Smith was a contact printer. When you drymount something, one side ends up with a different expansion/expansion ratio than the other side. Museum board is also rather hydroscopic and easily affected by humidity changes. The bigger the surface, the greater the cumulative issue becomes.

Wet mounting, which was once routine for really big prints, and similar to wallpaper hanging, would lead to serious differential board warpage unless they counter-mounted a similar piece of material to the backside of the same board.

A trick some of us use for large prints intended for permanent display is to drymount a sheet of 2-ply onto a thicker warp-free backing board. But this requires a different type of mounting tissue than that ordinarily used for the print itself.

But for small prints, I have plenty of 4-ply cutoffs laying around, and window cutouts from large mats which can be sized down. So I don't even think of their museum board cost.

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