drum, tube, tray

[Jim_in_Kyiv]

Someone has finally started importing Tetanal here, and color processing chemistry even. The shop has their 2 bath C-41 processing kit. Before I buy it, though, can anybody tell me if there will any problems doing this in trays? The box says that it's for drum and tube processing, and the language barrier makes asking the clerk impossible. Tetenal's web site doesn't say anything.

I'm familiar enough with developing, though it's been a few years. But I've always wanted to try doing colo(u)r and have the 2nd half of June for turning the bathroom into a darkroom.

Any suggestions?

 

[srs5694]

By chance, last night I did my first processing session using trays rather than drums, and I used Tetenal's RA-4 chemistry kit. It's certainly possible, but you've got to do it in a completely dark room (no safelight) or with a type of safelight that I don't have and that I've heard is very dim. Thus, you must know the way around your darkroom in the dark.

Personally, I didn't have any problems with my session -- at least, nothing major. The main problem was that the Tetenal blix had some small undissolved particles in it at first. I shook it up in a jug and that took care of most of the particles, but some still clung when I removed the prints from the blix tray. I had to wipe the prints with my hands in the wash to get it off (a squeegee would probably have worked, too). These particles slowly dissolved (or maybe were carried out on prints) over the course of my session. Also, the odor from the developer and blix gradually increased over time; my darkroom isn't yet as well ventillated as it should be.

Overall, I think I preferred this method to working with drums; I found it quicker to get on to the next print without having to wait for the washing to finish, much less dry the drum. (When I first started with color printing, I had problems with streaks from small drops of water that dripped at inopportune times with poorly-dried drums.) Maneuvering prints in and out of trays in total darkness isn't as hard as I'd feared it might be. Try practicing with B&W prints, if you like.

FWIW, the Tetenal instructions that came with my kit do address use in trays. If there's different packaging in Ukraine and such instructions are missing, post here and I'll summarize, or maybe scan the relevant pages for you.

 

[Claire Senft]

I would hazard a guess that since you are developing film, trays offer the best chance to scratch the film and for crud to get into your solutions.

Are you skilled at developing sheet film by hand?

 

[srs5694]

Oops; sorry, somehow I saw "C-41" and read "RA-4." My comments apply to the paper processing, not film processing.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I'm with Claire, in that you're almost certain to scratch hell out of your first few batches of film processed in trays -- but my last batch, only about my fifth, was scratch free. It's not really hard to develop the techniques of flexing the film as you pull it off the bottom of the stack, so it doesn't scratch against the edge of the sheets agove, and putting it back on top in a position so the corners don't contact the previous sheet -- just takes some practice, which might be most easily obtained by practicing with scrap or sacrificed sheets in the light.

Where I envision a problem is that with color chemistry, I wouldn't dare put my hands in it as I do with B&W (no, not recommended, but I've had my hands in developer many, many times since 1970 and never had a reaction of any kind; the stuff is less toxic than used motor oil), and most nitrile gloves (latex not being completely impervious to some chemicals) come powdered -- with either talc (very fine dust to settle on your emulsion) or corn starch (which is most assuredly not chemically inert, though I haven't any idea what it would do to color chemicals -- it certainly makes my developing tank nasty and slippery when I'm doing B&W reversal and need the gloves to protect against drops of dichromate bleach). Add to that the inevitable loss of sensation with gloves, and you have a recipe for serious problems (not to mention the issues of temperature control and precise timing needed for quality C-41 results).

I'd suggest doing C-41 sheet film in tubes, if possible -- it's slower than trays, at least with my tubes that can hold a maximum of two sheets each, but there are many fewer ways to screw stuff up...

 

[Jim_in_Kyiv]

Thanks for the advice. I'm pretty comfortable with working with sheets in the dark already - it's a matter of setting things up properly before I turn off the lights, but like I said, I'm rusty. The first batch or two is going to get scratched up regardless while I get back into the swing of things. I've had my hands into B&W chemistry often enough, but thanks for the warning about this stuff.

Looks like there's no reason not to try it, then. Hopefully by the 15th I'll have something to share, even if its for the laughs.

 

[Nick Zentena]

You'll face the usual issues.

Higher chemical use. Not a big deal with B&W but with C-41 I bet you'll be wasting quite a bit of chemicals unless you do large batches.

It's harder to keep an open tray at a stable temperture.

 

[Ronald Moravec]

I have no idea how you can hold 100 deg F plus or minus 1/4 deg in an open tray.

3.25 min process time is too short for tray agitation.

I use a JOBO expert drum for 4x5. A tank with hangars will work as will a Nikor 4x5 tank.

Hangars require vigorous agitation for first 30/60 sec to not get flow marks.

The Nikor needs to be filled first and the loaded reel dropped in in the dark, pulled up once, reimmersed, then capped. Agitate by inversion. The fill time is 30 sec thru the cap and this is bad practice in any case.

The Nikor or 4x5 tank requires a water bath so temp control is easy.

 

[Andreas Sigfridsson]

Jim, how did it go?

 

[MartinP]

You could use sloshers (developing frames) for four sheets of 4x5 in a 9 1/2 x 12 tray, maybe even a big 10x8 tray. That minimises your contact with the chemicals, reduces the precision required in handling (while wearing nitrile gloves) and elimiates the chances of the film hitting another sheet.