Drum scanning problems - please help !

Hi group. My latest project involves shooting medium format rollfilm (6x6
Rollei Pan 25) and drum scanning at 5300dpi to make 40" inkjet prints.

Last week I had a service bureau scan one of my 6x6 rollfilm black and white
negatives with a Heidelberg Premier D7100. I don't have much experience with
drum scanning but my impression is that this particular scan is terrible. The
negative is tack sharp: Rollei Pan 25 shot on a Hasselblad SWC/M using a tripod
and shutter release cable, no wind, 1/125 exposure. My goal is to make 40"
prints and the negative was scanned for 41 inches at 329 dpi (image dimensions
are 13549 x 13680)

The scan has way too much "grain" noise, but I'm not even sure it's grain.
Looking at the negative under a microscope the grain is much finer than some of
the detail that wasn't even recorded in the scan. The scan also looks like it
has some motion blur, as if the negative had moved on the drum - is that
possible ?

For fun I tried scanning it on my old Epson flatbed and the image actually seems
better (no blur, similar detail, but poorer DR) which doesn't make any sense to
me.

When I look at the negative on my lightbox with a 15X loop it is extremely
sharp, barely perceptible grain, and I can see much more detail than on the drum
scan. What type of result should I be expecting ?

I've included some 100% crops from the center of the image, one from the service
bureau, the other from my old Epson 3170 flatbed.


http://www.monosujet.com/Images/HeidelbergD7100.jpg
http://www.monosujet.com/Images/epson.jpg


Paul

That looks really bad. I´ve sometimes got similar hard grain as a result of oversharpening´and/or raising microcontrast. And there definitely is motion blur on the drum scan. The epson looks as good as it gets on an old flatbedscanner, but I see some vertical distortion (the face of the statue looks "longer" than on the drumscan). The resolution won´t be high enough to resolve the film grain.

Have you considered making the prints (or have them made) old school by enlarging the negative? Still better than scanning and printing, I believe.

doktorfisch said:

That looks really bad. I´ve sometimes got similar hard grain as a result of oversharpening´and/or raising microcontrast. And there definitely is motion blur on the drum scan. The epson looks as good as it gets on an old flatbedscanner, but I see some vertical distortion (the face of the statue looks "longer" than on the drumscan). The resolution won´t be high enough to resolve the film grain.

Have you considered making the prints (or have them made) old school by enlarging the negative? Still better than scanning and printing, I believe.

Click to expand...

I have my own darkroom but I can only print 20 x 24. I also really like the control I have in photoshop and the richer tonal range that can be achieved on an inkjet. Am I expecting too much or should the drum scan be WAY better than my Epson ? I'm going to ask for a rescan and have Lenny Eiger do a scan to compare...

I use a ScanMate 5000. It's not the best scanner around, but I can get much better scans than that. I would expect the Heidelberg to be better, but I don't have any experience with one. My guess is it's operator error for the grainy appearance. Very obviously over sharpened. I'm not sure why it looks like motion blur on some of the branches. I've never seen a drum scan that does that. But I have seen a bit of the jaggies on a Howtech I had, and that might be the same thing going on here.

When you have them rescan ask them to turn off the sharpening.

Your idea to have Lenny Eiger also do a scan is a good one. From what I hear he should be able to give you a very good scan. Please post the same crop from his scan once you get it done.

fatso said:

... Am I expecting too much or should the drum scan be WAY better than my Epson ? ...

Click to expand...

WAY better!

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'm going back to the shop to ask them for an improved scan. I'm also going to send it to Lenny Eiger and will follow up with a comparison.

Paul

Even my little Scanmate 3000 gives scans far better than that D7100 scan, and at a meager 3000 dpi and only 3.6D. Definitely too much USM.

I went back to the lab on my lunch hour to try to figure things out. I was polite and told them about the problem. They said that these types of scanners are old, so I asked when the last time they were serviced and calibrated, and the discussion immediately turned to my negative being the problem, that they have been in business 20 years and never had a complaint about their scans, that my negative must be out of focus. I told him I had looked at the negative under a microscope up to 40X and it was extremely sharp and detailed, that I had the negative with me and would like to discuss the issue with the owner because I thought there was a good chance there was a problem with their scanner. The owner was 'busy' in a meeting and unavailable and not wanting to argue when there is nothing to argue about I asked for a refund.

20 minutes and 6 phone calls later, the bank told them they weren't authorized to do returns on debit cards. The clerk went to talk to the owner, who came out and walked right by me without making eye contact or saying a word and gave her the cash.


Paul

That's some good customer service right there. At least you learned who not to use. Was this the drum or the Imacon place?

L Gebhardt said:

That's some good customer service right there. At least you learned who not to use. Was this the drum or the Imacon place?

Click to expand...

A drum scanning place in Montreal - this type of customer service is typical here. I'm giving up working with anyone local.

I don't even have any local places left that do drum scans (at least that I know of). I bought my first scanner because I could pick it up for the cost of under 10 scans. It eventually died, but I was able to do many more than 10 scans. I lucked into a good deal on the Scanmate 5000 that has paid for itself vs sending out for scans. You may want look into getting a drum scanner of your own, if you have the space.

My guess is that the problem is with the operator and not the scanner.

Ask them to wet mount the film and turn the sharpening off (do the sharpening in Pshop yourself), the result from a drum should be way better as you already notice regarding the shadow details.