Drop count for 20 x 24 Palladium

Zebra · Aug 19, 2006

Would be interested in hearing the ULF masters input on what drop count they felt appropriate for a 20 x 24 palladium print.

I am using palladium only with FO # 1 and the Na2 method of contrast control. I am using a Richeson brush for the coating. On a related note is the NuArc 40 1Ks (not sure if I have the model number correct) my best option for even illumination or will the new unit Sandy has been testing be a viable option for prints this size. I currently use a 26 1Ks unit from NuArc, and there seems to be some light fall off on some of the negatives I am printing but oddly enough not all of the negatives. Just as likely could be operator error!

Thanks in advance,

Monty

donbga · Aug 19, 2006

Zebra said:
Would be interested in hearing the ULF masters input on what drop count they felt appropriate for a 20 x 24 palladium print.

I am using palladium only with FO # 1 and the Na2 method of contrast control. I am using a Richeson brush for the coating. On a related note is the NuArc 40 1Ks (not sure if I have the model number correct) my best option for even illumination or will the new unit Sandy has been testing be a viable option for prints this size. I currently use a 26 1Ks unit from NuArc, and there seems to be some light fall off on some of the negatives I am printing but oddly enough not all of the negatives. Just as likely could be operator error!

Thanks in advance,

Monty

From what I've heard, there is or can be light fall off with the 26 1K units. AS for the drop count you should be able to use a multiple of what you are using to make smaller prints like an 8x10. Of course a lot depends on the paper too.

clay · Aug 19, 2006

I would get some inexpensive pipettes and pumps. You'll go nuts trying to count that many drops. My rule of thumb is .1ml of each solution per 10 square inches. So that would be 4.8ml of each solution for your print.

Robert Hall · Aug 19, 2006

As Clay said, at least 5ml of solution. I run a little dry on prints that large. I tend to use 6ml and a push rod.

sanking · Aug 19, 2006

Zebra said:
Would be interested in hearing the ULF masters input on what drop count they felt appropriate for a 20 x 24 palladium print.

I am using palladium only with FO # 1 and the Na2 method of contrast control. I am using a Richeson brush for the coating. On a related note is the NuArc 40 1Ks (not sure if I have the model number correct) my best option for even illumination or will the new unit Sandy has been testing be a viable option for prints this size. I currently use a 26 1Ks unit from NuArc, and there seems to be some light fall off on some of the negatives I am printing but oddly enough not all of the negatives. Just as likely could be operator error!

Thanks in advance,

Monty

Monty,

See my message in the Contact printing forum about the Amergraph ULF-28. I finished my review of this unit and it will be up at www.unblinkingeye.com very soon, perhaps as early as tomorrow.

Sandy

Zebra · Aug 20, 2006

Thanks men. Excellent suggestion on the pipette as counting has been a bit laborious. Sandy I'll look for the review this week.

Thanks again,

Monty

Donsta · Aug 20, 2006

B&S sell pipettes and little pipette pumps... a must have for larger prints and really not very expensive in the big picture.

RobertP · Aug 21, 2006

Gather up your all your droppers and walk to the back door. Open it and throw them as far as you can.Drop size can vary from dropper to dropper. Pipettes are the only way to go. Get two 2ml for the FO and Pd and a 1ml for the na2 along with 3 pipette pumps. Also if you are using the na2 method then it is a pt/pd print not a palladium print. You can dial in the na2 real well with a 1 ml pipette. Solution amounts can vary from paper to paper also. Refer to Arentz's book, he gives a great chart for na2 on page 59 of the second edition.

bobherbst · Aug 21, 2006

As others have already said, pipettes are the only way to go for prints larger than 8x10. As far as volume is concerned, Clay, I don't know how you get a complete and even coating with .1ml/10 sq in. unless you are coating on a very non-absorbent paper. I only coat with a brush (2" Windsor-Newton #606 Sceptre Gold) and use 3.5ml of both FeOx and Pt/Pd for a 12x20 print on Cranes Platinotype. It should be noted here that the paper you are using has a major impact on the amount of solution needed for an even coating. Fabriano Artistico and Opaline require significantly less volume of solution for coating due to more sizing in the paper than platinotype. Coating volume is paper dependent.

Kerik · Aug 21, 2006

My numbers are more in line with Clay's. I use 2.6 ml of ferric and pd for a 14x17 print (240 sq. in.) with a 4" Magic brush on Fabriano AEW, COT 320 and Rives BFK. I don't use p-type.

clay · Aug 21, 2006

That rule of thumb has worked well for me for most papers, even the very absorbent Rives BFK. I have made several 20x24's using this formula and gotten complete coating. I get a nice even and thoroughly coated print.

I actually use less on some of the drafting vellums - typically 75% of the rule-of-thumb amount.

Another factor to consider is the use of the appropriate size magic brush. I use a 4" brush for anything over 7x17, and since it is used wet, you are getting a little bit of an assist in even coating from the water retained in the bristles. But if you use this same rule of thumb for a small 6x9" print and happen to be using a 4" brush, you risk diluting the sensitizer too much. Which is why I keep different sizes of the Richeson brush on hand and pick the brush based on the size of the area I am coating.

But as always, YMMV.

bobherbst said:
As others have already said, pipettes are the only way to go for prints larger than 8x10. As far as volume is concerned, Clay, I don't know how you get a complete and even coating with .1ml/10 sq in. unless you are coating on a very non-absorbent paper. I only coat with a brush (2" Windsor-Newton #606 Sceptre Gold) and use 3.5ml of both FeOx and Pt/Pd for a 12x20 print on Cranes Platinotype. It should be noted here that the paper you are using has a major impact on the amount of solution needed for an even coating. Fabriano Artistico and Opaline require significantly less volume of solution for coating due to more sizing in the paper than platinotype. Coating volume is paper dependent.

RobertP · Aug 21, 2006

Kerik said:
My numbers are more in line with Clay's. I use 2.6 ml of ferric and pd for a 14x17 print (240 sq. in.) with a 4" Magic brush on Fabriano AEW, COT 320 and Rives BFK. I don't use p-type.

Kerik, Is that 2.6ml total solution for a 14x17? If so are you double coating?

RobertP · Aug 22, 2006

Kerik, Now that I read this again it seems that it would be 5.2ml combined ferric and pd. Is that right? That is about what I use for an 8x20. Like Clay said YMMV. There are alot of variables involved from one persons way of coating to anothers. How well you are clearing the water from your brush may also have a lot to do with the difference in coating amounts. I guess the best advice for someone would be to find a method that works best for you and stick with it. As they say, " if its not broke...don't fix it. Just my humble opinion.

Kerik · Aug 22, 2006

Yes, a total volume of 5.2 ml (single coated) for a 14x17 or 12x20 print on any of the papers I use, except Vellums, which require considerably less per coat but work best double-coated.

EricNeilsen · Aug 26, 2006

Zebra said:
Would be interested in hearing the ULF masters input on what drop count they felt appropriate for a 20 x 24 palladium print.

I am using palladium only with FO # 1 and the Na2 method of contrast control. I am using a Richeson brush for the coating. On a related note is the NuArc 40 1Ks (not sure if I have the model number correct) my best option for even illumination or will the new unit Sandy has been testing be a viable option for prints this size. I currently use a 26 1Ks unit from NuArc, and there seems to be some light fall off on some of the negatives I am printing but oddly enough not all of the negatives. Just as likely could be operator error!

Thanks in advance,

Monty

Monty, The pipettes are what I use for small prints, 11x14 and less. They are measured in .01 up to 2ml. I also have a set that holds 10ml with .1 measured lines. If I am doing a bunch of printing, I have burets set up that hold 50 ml of solution.

I would work your drop count up on your smaller pieces and just go up based on that plus a little extra for the edges. The amounts that you have seen, between 4 and 6 should work for most papers, but so much depends on paper type and coating technique that you are in the best position to see.

The first few times I made 20x24's I tried drop counts, but after a few interruptions and losing track, I suggested we switch to burets. Just make sure you get teflon stop cocks. It is important to avoid the iron clips so also get treaded valves.

Ferric Oxalate goes in one and the other gets palladium. All the other additives can be added with the pipettes.

Eric

EricNeilsen · Aug 26, 2006

Donsta said:
B&S sell pipettes and little pipette pumps... a must have for larger prints and really not very expensive in the big picture.

Are those glass or plastic? Plastic are fine and won't break if you drop them. Glass are good. I have always found that the pumps are a pain.

Eric

Drop count for 20 x 24 Palladium

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