Double-Asastigmat "Rigonar" - Are they good?

[baachitraka]

I know this lens could have broken beyond the repair and it has f/6.8, which could be a copy of dagors. Are these lenses any good?

 

[JPD]

There are 5,5 and 4,5 versions as well: https://www.engel-art.ch/knoll/ and

Pacific Rim Camera Photographica Pages

"Eho-Altissa was founded in Leipzig in 1892 as Richard Knoll's "Photo Spezialhaus". By 1904 they were repairing and building photo equipment. It was moved to Dresden in 1910, and was acquired by Emil Hofert in 1927, and later by Berthold Altmann. The name was changed to: EHO- Kamerafabrik GmbH in 1931."

The name "Rigonar" was later used by Balda for a triplet on their Rigona cameras.

I think it's more likely that the Doppel-Anastigmat Rigonar is a four element dialyte or double-Gauss lens, or maybe both depending on the version, than a Dagor. A cheaper version of the 5,5 and 4,5 versions, hence the 6,8 speed and cheap Vario shutter. The lenses were probably not made by Knoll, but bought in from a lens manufacturer. ICA Hekla is another 6,8 lens that is a double-Gauss rather than a Dagor.

A Dagor-type you can find for little money is the ICA Doppel-Anastigmat Maximar in 6,8 and 5,4.

 

[baachitraka]

I got some dagors 120, 135 and 168, but knowing other good lenses is a bit difficult.

 

[Dustin McAmera]

Announced in Photographische Welt in 1906:

Photographische Welt : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Description based on: Bd. 20, Heft 1 (Jan. 1906); title from cover

archive.org

'The Rigonar F:4.5, F:6, F:6.8 is brought to market by the company R. Knoll, Leipzig-Oetzsch. It is a spherically, chromatically and astigmatically perfectly corrected lens, free of any distortion, the coma is completely eliminated so that the images have an excellent brilliance, the plate sizes are cut sharply right into the corners when the full light intensity is used, and the instruments are free of all annoying reflections.
The light intensity of the Rigonar F:4.5 is still perfectly sufficient for taking pictures in the studio even in cloudy weather and is therefore particularly suitable for this purpose. The Rigonar is symmetrically constructed so that the rear lens can be used on its own as an excellent single anastigmat of around twice the focal length of the system with great success for landscape shots etc.
Due to their compact construction, these instruments are perfectly suited for installation in hand-held and folding cameras of all designs. The company is willing to send any instrument for 14 days for testing.'

 

[lobitar]

If you manage to clean the lenses and the shutter op I think you might probably be able to make some fine photos on 6x9 cm and 9x12 cm. Why not give it a run for the money?

 

[baachitraka]

Is there any book or catalog that gives all the information about the lenes vintage or modern?

 

[JPD]

Is there any book or catalog that gives all the information about the lenes vintage or modern?

"a lens collector's vade mecum" is a PDF and covers most lenses. I have the second edition, and it doesn't mention the Rigonar. https://antiquecameras.net/lensvademecum.html

The author of the above PDF often mentions Willy Frerk's book "Lichtbildkunde" Band 1. from 1927. https://www.abebooks.com/Lichtbildkunde-Fr-Willy-Frerk-Editor-Guido/31500127417/bd It's old and in German, but very informative and interesting when you like photography and technology of that period.

Julius Friedrich Willy Frerk – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

 

[baachitraka]

I just ordered the lichtbildkunde and perhaps also buy the lensvademecum too.

 

[Ian Grant]

Is there any book or catalog that gives all the information about the lenes vintage or modern?

The Vade Mecum mentions Rigonar lenses 3 times, used in the 1950sby Balda, another Dresden based company.

The Rigonar here is much earlier, pre 1930the Vario shutter indicates it is most likely a budget lens. Probably the style of the Vario shutter might narrow the time frame. Probably closer to 1912 when the Vario was introduced, Richard Koll moved Eho-Altiss moved to Dresden in 1910..

Ian

 

[baachitraka]

Just purchased Vade Mecum. Right now I am at workplace and will look into those *.pdf files when I reach home.

Though, these lenses could be rare to find but thinking about cataloging portrait lenses from Vade Mecum (just for fun).

 

[JPD]

The Vade Mecum mentions Rigonar lenses 3 times, used in the 1950sby Balda, another Dresden based company.

The Rigonar here is much earlier, pre 1930the Vario shutter indicates it is most likely a budget lens. Probably the style of the Vario shutter might narrow the time frame. Probably closer to 1912 when the Vario was introduced, Richard Koll moved Eho-Altiss moved to Dresden in 1910..

Ian

Yes, but it's a completely different lens design. How Balda came to own the name "Rigonar" is a mystery.

I just ordered the lichtbildkunde and perhaps also buy the lensvademecum too.

You will enjoy them. There is also a Band 2. of the Lichtbildkunde, from 1931, but it covers darkroom work so it's more outdated than Band 1.

 

[baachitraka]

You will enjoy them. There is also a Band 2. of the Lichtbildkunde, from 1931, but it covers darkroom work so it's more outdated than Band 1.

I think I got the Band 2 :-(

Nevertheless, I should look one written by "Merte / Richter / Rohr .:. Das photographische Objektiv"

 

[Ian Grant]

Yes, but it's a completely different lens design. How Balda came to own the name "Rigonar" is a mystery.

Balda used other manufacturers lenses before WWII on some of their cameras, so it's quite possible they bought in Rigonar lenses from Eho-Altissa, by 1952 nationalised as VEB Altissa Camera Werk, who were also in Dresden.

Ian

 

[Romanko]

I doubt that the lens is beyond repair but the shutter probably is. Is it possible to replace this Vario shutter with a better model like a dial-set Compur? Are they compatible?

 

[JPD]

Balda used other manufacturers lenses before WWII on some of their cameras, so it's quite possible they bought in Rigonar lenses from Eho-Altissa, by 1952 nationalised as VEB Altissa Camera Werk, who were also in Dresden.

Ian

Or perhaps Balda bought some parts of Knoll's company when it was taken over by EHO-Altissa? Balda made a 3x4 Rigona camera for 127-film in the 1930s, well before the postwar 24x36 Rigonas.

I think I got the Band 2 :-(

Nevertheless, I should look one written by "Merte / Richter / Rohr .:. Das photographische Objektiv"

If it is the Band 2, I hope you don't mind reporting back with what you think of its contents. If you get the Band 1. later you will have the complete set of books.

Yes, the Merté et al. book is one I want to get someday too. It's very scientific, but it's interesting to learn what lens designers have to say about certain lens designs even if you don't understand all the mathematical forumlas and graphs.

"Optisches Hilfsbuch für photographierende" (1909) by Dr. Hans Harting in PDF: https://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/410679/1

Hans Harting designed the Heliar and other lenses for Voigtländer, but he is objective (no pun intended) and describes all the common lens designs of the time. He updated the book for later editions and you can find them for little money.