Dots on film

Rupie · Sep 28, 2015

120 FP4 developed in Paterson tank, in R09. Done many times before, with correct agitation, every minute for the reccomended 8 minutes, but this time dots on first two frames, nowhere else.

The tank was used yesturday and fine, today film was put in and developed within 20 minutes.

Any suggestions

nworth · Sep 28, 2015

Looks like a classic case of air bubbles to me. You usually dislodge these with the initial agitation, and they almost always are gone with subsequent agitation, so it is amazing how clear and distinct these are. The second thought is something adhering to the film. But material adherents usually have at least somewhat jagged edges; these are very smooth and rounded. Oil droplets are also a possibility. Could something have spattered onto the film? Manufacturing defects are a possibility, but they are highly unlikely. The distribution of the spots may give some clues. Are they localized to this frame and maybe the immediately adjacent frames? Is this frame at either the beginning or end of the roll (or very near)? Or does this happen throughout the roll?

RobC · Sep 28, 2015

some of those spots are lighter than the film rebate. There is no development on them at all. That suggests they are not air bubbles because they wouldn't remain in position throughout development.

I suspect a film defect or film contamination with something, probably at factory but maybe in camera. Have you just had it serviced or used some lubricant in film back? i.e. some oil as suggested.

Do you still have backing paper, if so check outside to see if there are oily spots on it.

Ko.Fe. · Sep 28, 2015

I'm telling ya it is moon thing!
I developed one roll of Polypan F last night on moon eclipse (clouds in the sky) and exactly the same on the negative.
And everything was done in the same way as usual.

RobC · Sep 28, 2015

Ko.Fe. said:
I'm telling ya it is moon thing!
I developed one roll of Polypan F last night on moon eclipse (clouds in the sky) and exactly the same on the negative.
And everything was done in the same way as usual.

It's Werewolf drool.

Sirius Glass · Sep 28, 2015

Air bells. When you first fill that tank and then every time you refill the tank thump it hard on a thick rubber block such as one of these. http://www.amazon.com/Speedball-Linoleum-Blocks/dp/B000BYXF7A

Rupie · Sep 28, 2015

It is on the first two frames only, which would have been on the outer of the spool. I ALWAYS agitate, at start of development and then every minute, and bang the tank to dislodge bubbles. Have developed about twenty films, in the last couple of months and no faults. before that I developed many 35mm films since college without this ever happening.

The only thing I can think of was that there may have been moisture left in the tank or spool, from a previous time and after I loaded the tank I did not start development for an hour or so, but I always wash my hands before and make sure everything is clean.

K-G · Sep 28, 2015

I have never seen air bells make so completely clean spots. I suspect some kind of chemical contamination, drops of fixer or similar before development.

Karl-Gustaf

Sirius Glass · Sep 28, 2015

Well you have come to the right place.

Welcome to APUG

rjbuzzclick · Sep 28, 2015

No idea about the dots, but it looks like there is a light leak near the bottom right side of the of the image by the model's waist that bleeds into the rebate. Possibly related, possibly not...

McFortner · Sep 28, 2015

I blame pumpkin spice since it's that time of year!

Jim Jones · Sep 28, 2015

Looks like air bells to me. A prewash with Photo-Flo helps avoid this and a few other potential problems.

Michael W · Sep 29, 2015

K-G said:
I have never seen air bells make so completely clean spots. I suspect some kind of chemical contamination, drops of fixer or similar before development.

Karl-Gustaf

I agree, looks like a few drops of fix cleared the film in those spots before the dev started to work.

ic-racer · Sep 29, 2015

The clear areas show film base density and likely represent areas in which the developer failed to have an effect.

Old-N-Feeble · Sep 29, 2015

As a side note: Am I seeing uneven light brown stains on the film?

Rupie · Sep 29, 2015

Old-N-Feeble said:
As a side note: Am I seeing uneven light brown stains on the film?

The brown things you see are not on the neg, I think its a reflection from when I took the image on my phone.

Never had bubble probelms in the many years I have been developing, I also don't know how fix could have got onto the film ?

RobC · Sep 29, 2015

Rupie said:
The brown things you see are not on the neg, I think its a reflection from when I took the image on my phone.

Never had bubble probelms in the many years I have been developing, I also don't know how fix could have got onto the film ?

did you wash the lid properly? Have you checked backing paper?

Old-N-Feeble · Sep 29, 2015

After reading all posts to this point, I get the feeling this is a manufacturing defect.

railwayman3 · Sep 29, 2015

Rupie said:
The brown things you see are not on the neg, I think its a reflection from when I took the image on my phone.

Never had bubble probelms in the many years I have been developing, I also don't know how fix could have got onto the film ?

If you're confident that it isn't airbells or fixer (or other) contamination, the only other answer would seem to be to send a sample, with the batch number, to Ilford/Harman for technical examination.

Rupie · Sep 29, 2015

I developed another roll the evening before, and I think that I cannot of dried the lid properly and, as it doesn't get washed properly after fixing, a small amount of fix got in the canister.

That's what I think.

Old-N-Feeble · Sep 29, 2015

Even if full-strength fresh wet fixer was in the lid and was transferred to the film when the lid was installed, the spots wouldn't look like that. The transfer of fluid would be elongated due to the extreme angle of attack. If you're referring to contamination of developer it would look nothing like that.

Michael W · Sep 29, 2015

Rupie said:
I developed another roll the evening before, and I think that I cannot of dried the lid properly and, as it doesn't get washed properly after fixing, a small amount of fix got in the canister.

That's what I think.

I've done that once. It's particularly a problem if you do a presoak as then you are washing dilute fix over the film before the dev goes in (how do I know? Because I did it). Only happened once and taught me to thoroughly wash all parts of the tank after processing.

Dots on film

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