Does the Nikon F3 meter work without a lens?

georgebuchholz · Feb 18, 2015

Just got a nice F3, and shutter seems to fire at all speeds. I don't have a lens but I was playing around with it. It shoots at 1/80th until frame 1 then it will shoot at all speeds. But when it's set to A, it shoots at -8. I've read that some people have issues with it shooting at -8 in A with lenses, but without one is this normal? The lens won't get here for awhile so I'm kind of skeptical and if this is the case I might as well return it ASAP.

Thanks!

Theo Sulphate · Feb 18, 2015

Without a lens attached, the camera has no way of knowing what the maximum aperture is - the camera relies on the AI indexing ridge at the rear of the lens to slide the tab on the mount, based on the maximum aperture. With no lens, the tab is in its default position and the camera probably knows there's no lens attached and is giving you a bogus reading. You might try sliding the AI tab on the mount to see if your reading changes, but you really should test it with an AI or newer lens.

darkosaric · Feb 18, 2015

Welcome to APUG. I will check this later when I get home (if somebody else will not be quicker).

Xmas · Feb 18, 2015

The F3 has the flip up AI tab so with an AIed lens has no way of detecting a lens mounted, but may need the stop down button pushed but I'd doubt that.

The meter needs a battery and the contacts wiped and the first pressure on the shutter and you need to select the mode forgotten how, try down loading the manual.

http://www.cameramanuals.org/nikon_pdf/nikon_f3.pdf

edit - it needs the stop down button depressed see manual!
Been 30 years since I sold mine...

Les Sarile · Feb 18, 2015

The meter works with or without a lens. On "A", it will vary according to the light source it is pointed to. Only on "X" and "B" will there be no metering.

darkosaric · Feb 18, 2015

Xmas said:
Been 30 years since I sold mine...

It is time to buy it again .

Andy38 · Feb 18, 2015

Les Sarile said:
The meter works with or without a lens. On "A", it will vary according to the light source it is pointed to. Only on "X" and "B" will there be no metering.

I agree ; mine works like that.

ronnies · Feb 18, 2015

Les Sarile said:
The meter works with or without a lens. On "A", it will vary according to the light source it is pointed to. Only on "X" and "B" will there be no metering.

I've just tried mine without a lens on "A" and the shutter speeds varied just as I'd expect.

Ronnie

Xmas · Feb 18, 2015

darkosaric said:
It is time to buy it again .

I still use a F2 alas a F3 was a step too far sold it when the F2 escaped from repair shop I was distracted by meter LCD.

bdial · Feb 18, 2015

Do you have a body cap on it?
If so, what you describe would be the expected behavior for the A setting after you're at frame 1 or beyond.

georgebuchholz · Feb 18, 2015

No, the body cap is not on. I'll go out and get a fresh pair of batteries. I picked up it on ebay from this guy selling an estate, so there was no testing on it.

Chan Tran · Feb 18, 2015

Theo Sulphate said:
Without a lens attached, the camera has no way of knowing what the maximum aperture is - the camera relies on the AI indexing ridge at the rear of the lens to slide the tab on the mount, based on the maximum aperture. With no lens, the tab is in its default position and the camera probably knows there's no lens attached and is giving you a bogus reading. You might try sliding the AI tab on the mount to see if your reading changes, but you really should test it with an AI or newer lens.

The F3 never knows the maximum aperture of the lens. The AI coupling doesn't provide this information. The AI coupling only tells the meter how many stops the lens will be stopped down from maximum aperture but it doesn't know what the maximum aperture is. This is the same reason why the F5 with the AI coupling doesn't work on matrix mode. Nikon Matrix metering from the F5 onward requires that the meter knows the maximum aperture of the lens. Yes it should work without the lens.

Theo Sulphate · Feb 18, 2015

Chan Tran said:
The F3 never knows the maximum aperture of the lens. The AI coupling doesn't provide this information. The AI coupling only tells the meter how many stops the lens will be stopped down from maximum aperture but it doesn't know what the maximum aperture is.

From Nikon: "The position of the ridge differs between AI lenses with differing maximum aperture f-numbers. In essence, the position of this ridge is sensed by the camera's lever and transmitted to the exposure meter in terms of the difference in maximum aperture f-number. By simply attaching a lens to the camera, the ridge and lever are coupled, enabling the exposure meter to function properly."

http://nikon.com/about/feelnikon/recollections/r28_e/index.htm

(see the section: "The user-friendly AI system")

So, because the metering is done wide-open, it needs to know how many stops further down the aperture will close when the shutter is tripped. The meter just needs to know the difference between wide open (whatever aperture that may be) and the shooting aperture. Yet, as the photos on the Nikon site show, the ridge does indicate the difference between the f/2 and f/1.4 lens.

frank · Feb 18, 2015

Theo Sulphate said:
From Nikon: "The position of the ridge differs between AI lenses with differing maximum aperture f-numbers. In essence, the position of this ridge is sensed by the camera's lever and transmitted to the exposure meter in terms of the difference in maximum aperture f-number. By simply attaching a lens to the camera, the ridge and lever are coupled, enabling the exposure meter to function properly."

http://nikon.com/about/feelnikon/recollections/r28_e/index.htm

(see the section: "The user-friendly AI system")

So, because the metering is done wide-open, it needs to know how many stops further down the aperture will close when the shutter is tripped. The meter just needs to know the difference between wide open (whatever aperture that may be) and the shooting aperture. Yet, as the photos on the Nikon site show, the ridge does indicate the difference between the f/2 and f/1.4 lens.

+1

Also, my F4 supports matrix metering with Ai lenses.

georgebuchholz · Feb 18, 2015

Well I got fresh new batteries and it's the same thing. I paid $150 for the camera and it's in near mint cosmetic condition and I can shoot it unmetered. However, should I just return it or should I repair it? Anybody know a good repair place?

Chan Tran · Feb 18, 2015

Theo Sulphate said:
From Nikon: "The position of the ridge differs between AI lenses with differing maximum aperture f-numbers. In essence, the position of this ridge is sensed by the camera's lever and transmitted to the exposure meter in terms of the difference in maximum aperture f-number. By simply attaching a lens to the camera, the ridge and lever are coupled, enabling the exposure meter to function properly."

http://nikon.com/about/feelnikon/recollections/r28_e/index.htm

(see the section: "The user-friendly AI system")

So, because the metering is done wide-open, it needs to know how many stops further down the aperture will close when the shutter is tripped. The meter just needs to know the difference between wide open (whatever aperture that may be) and the shooting aperture. Yet, as the photos on the Nikon site show, the ridge does indicate the difference between the f/2 and f/1.4 lens.

There is really no difference. Nikon made it so that when it set at f/5.6 the prong is always upward other than that there is no difference. You can see with both lens when set at minimum and maximum aperture the ridge is at exactly the same position. The ridge is at different position because they are both set at f/5.6 and with the f/2 lens that's 3 stops down and the f/1.4 lens 4 stops down.

Chan Tran · Feb 18, 2015

georgebuchholz said:
No, the body cap is not on. I'll go out and get a fresh pair of batteries. I picked up it on ebay from this guy selling an estate, so there was no testing on it.

If you point your camera at a bright light and the meter still indicate -8 then it's defective.

georgebuchholz · Feb 18, 2015

I did that, even with fresh batteries and it is defective. Like I said before, I paid $150 for it and it's in mint cosmetic shape and everything else seems to work great. Should I return it or repair it? An EX+ one goes for $268 on KEH.

frank · Feb 18, 2015

Try it with a lens! That's how it's meant to work after all.

Alex Muir · Feb 18, 2015

I got a mint cosmetic example, but it had some issues. They were all resolved for the cost of a CLA. I would speak to a repairer soon to see if this is a common problem, and is repairable. If so, you might be as well getting this camera fixed as it is otherwise in good shape. A different one could also arrive with its own problems. If the repairer can't identify the problem by its description, there is no guarantee it can be fixed, so send it back.
Alex.

E. von Hoegh · Feb 18, 2015

frank said:
Try it with a lens! That's how it's meant to work after all.

Amen. FFS.:confused:

georgebuchholz · Feb 18, 2015

I just borrowed a lens and it does the same thing, man. I'm bummed.

frank · Feb 18, 2015

georgebuchholz said:
I just borrowed a lens and it does the same thing, man. I'm bummed.

Sucks, but at least you know for sure.

Richard S. (rich815) · Feb 18, 2015

I'd return it. If aesthetics are not as important as functionality there's a load of good, working F3 bodies at $100-120 or less, often available for sale on this forum.

BrianShaw · Feb 18, 2015

Old F3s can be like old Hasselblads: many have lived a long and prosperous life but are just worn out. If I were you,though, and had a local repair shop nearby, I'd be tempted to have a tech look at it before giving up hope. It could be a major problem (like broken FRE) or maybe it is something less ominous (but I can't guess at what that might be).

Does the Nikon F3 meter work without a lens?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency