Does the identity of the sitter matter?

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snusmumriken

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Genuine question. I honestly don't know what to think, and I'd love to know your views. I ponder this every year as the Taylor Wessing competition comes round.

We see many portraits of famous people. Famous photographers tend to photograph famous people. Great portraits capture something telling about the sitter. Some photographers become famous for taking great portraits, and those that become famous are generally those of famous people. But with a few exceptions (e.g. Steve McCurry's Afghan Girl or Dorothea Lange's Migrant Mother), ordinary people don't tend to become famous as a result of their portrait.

So does it matter if you have never heard of the sitter? Would you be as interested in a portrait of my wife's mother's former school teacher as in a portrait of - say - Steve McCurry or Nelson Mandela or Gwyneth Paltrow? Would you buy - indeed, have you bought? - a portrait of an unidentified sitter? Taylor Wessing prize-winners often seem to be of people I have never heard of. It is interesting to see them and to try to understand why the judges chose them. When I bought books of portraits by HCB and Jane Bown, I had to Google almost all of the sitters. Once I knew a little background, the portraits became more interesting, but they were beautiful photos even before that.

If we are to be interested in an unidentified sitter, do we need more clues to be present in the photo, since we know nothing about them in advance? Must it, in effect, be an environmental portrait, or is there enough written in a face?
 

koraks

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I hope to learn something about the sitter, and how the photographer views them, through the portrait. Whether I know them and/or if they're famous are secondary issues. They matter, since they influence how I interpret the portrait - there's no escape from this. But I don't mind.

is there enough written in a face?

Anything goes, in a way. Which isn't the same as "anything's good"!

Interesting question. Looking forward to where this is going.
 

faberryman

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Genuine question. I honestly don't know what to think, and I'd love to know your views. I ponder this every year as the Taylor Wessing competition comes round...

If we are to be interested in an unidentified sitter, do we need more clues to be present in the photo, since we know nothing about them in advance? Must it, in effect, be an environmental portrait, or is there enough written in a face?

The face of the person in the First Place winner in last year's Taylor Wessing competition is obscured by a hat. I have no idea if the person is famous. Probably not. I don't know if the two women in the Second Place portrait are famous. Probably not. The boy in the Third Place portrait is probably not famous. It appears to be a snapshot his grandmother took of him and his rabbit. It looks like non-formal "portraits" of non-famous people are what catch the judges' eye.

Any idea why a law firm sponsors a portrait photography contest?
 
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guangong

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I have a portrait of an unknown woman given to me by my friend Louie Stettner. As with many of Louie’s portraits, you don’t have to research the woman’s background or history, much of it is expressed right in the portrait. I forgot how this picture came about, but most likely somebody he saw on the street. She is looking straight into the camera.
 

guangong

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My wife took a candid portrait of Louie with her M5 that he used on a dust jacket for one of his books. She was able to catch much of his spirit.
 

faberryman

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My wife took a candid portrait of Louie with her M5 that he used on a dust jacket for one of his books. She was able to catch much of his spirit.

Any reason you mentioned that your wife took his picture with an M5?
 
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Sirius Glass

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I am interested in the photograph, the rest is of marginal interest.
 

cliveh

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I use to think that the National Portrait Gallery in the UK was about good portraits, but it is in fact about portraits of famous people.
 

pentaxuser

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I use to think that the National Portrait Gallery in the UK was about good portraits, but it is in fact about portraits of famous people.

Given the National Portrait Gallery needs visitors, is this really a surprising conclusion? How many "unknowns" would really attract the public's attention?

pentaxuser
 

Sirius Glass

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I am interested in the photograph, the rest is of marginal interest.

One could say that having background information is like pouring gravy on a piece of cake. 🤪
🤪😱
 

bluechromis

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I'm not fascinated by celebrities. I think is artistically misguided that the merit of portraitists is sometimes gauged by how famous their clients are. But it makes sense from a business standpoint. It may be that the public has seen celebrities in other settings and think that they know them to an extent, which makes it more interesting for them to see their portraits than those of total strangers. Most of the time, I don't care to know the identity of the sitter. An exception may be with journalism e.g., where there is a photo essay about a person or group where knowing the identity is important to tell the story. With Eugene Smith's Minamata series, it might not be important to know the names of the individual subjects. But if someone knew nothing about the overall context, the images probably would not make as much sense. But he was not doing formal portraits per se.
 

AnselMortensen

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Richard Avedon's American West series comes to mind as an example of unknown sitters' portraits being more interesting than many celebrity portraits.
 

MattKing

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Photographers look at a portrait of a well known person and say: "that is technically and aesthetically a good/bad/indifferent portrait".
Non photographers look at a portrait of a well known person and say: "that shows Mr. X in a way that surprises me/explains his music/reveals where the strength of his writing comes from/etc.".
The answer to the question raised by the OP is yes, it matter, because if one knows something about the sitter, the context helps us evaluate the portrait in relation to that knowledge.
I'm not saying that that makes the portrait better, or worse. I am saying that the experiences are different.
 

MTGseattle

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I'm going to narrow this down a bit and ask whether actors or "regular" people make better subjects? Professional actors have trained to exhibit the requested emotion on que while it may take the average person a few frames to get the "look" right. I'm torn regarding the Op's question though. We're ultimately still talking about lighting, exposure and composition. A bad portrait of a celebrity may be passed off as bad on purpose. If I make a bad portrait of my sister, it's just a bad portrait. Hmm. This has got me thinking at least.
 

faberryman

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Only that it wasn’t a formal portrait!

I think you accomplished that with the words "candid portrait", so there must have been some other reason you mentioned that she took his picture with her M5.
 
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snusmumriken

snusmumriken

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I think you accomplished that with the words "candid portrait", so there must have been some other reason you mentioned that she took his picture with her M5.
It ensured a good Leica-ness?🙂 C’mon, his wife wields a serious camera. That’s not irrelevant: you might have been biased to expect the opposite.
 

faberryman

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It ensured a good Leica-ness?🙂 C’mon, his wife wields a serious camera. That’s not irrelevant: you might have been biased to expect the opposite.

What is "serious" about an M5? What is relevant about her having used an M5?
 
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warden

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Genuine question. I honestly don't know what to think, and I'd love to know your views. I ponder this every year as the Taylor Wessing competition comes round.

We see many portraits of famous people. Famous photographers tend to photograph famous people. Great portraits capture something telling about the sitter. Some photographers become famous for taking great portraits, and those that become famous are generally those of famous people. But with a few exceptions (e.g. Steve McCurry's Afghan Girl or Dorothea Lange's Migrant Mother), ordinary people don't tend to become famous as a result of their portrait.

So does it matter if you have never heard of the sitter? Would you be as interested in a portrait of my wife's mother's former school teacher as in a portrait of - say - Steve McCurry or Nelson Mandela or Gwyneth Paltrow? Would you buy - indeed, have you bought? - a portrait of an unidentified sitter? Taylor Wessing prize-winners often seem to be of people I have never heard of. It is interesting to see them and to try to understand why the judges chose them. When I bought books of portraits by HCB and Jane Bown, I had to Google almost all of the sitters. Once I knew a little background, the portraits became more interesting, but they were beautiful photos even before that.

If we are to be interested in an unidentified sitter, do we need more clues to be present in the photo, since we know nothing about them in advance? Must it, in effect, be an environmental portrait, or is there enough written in a face?

I don’t need to know who the person is to enjoy the work and much of the time I prefer to not know. Much of RaMell Ross and Alec Soth’s work comes to mind. Or August Sander.

Sometimes the work is improved by knowing what the photographer was thinking, or what the sitters were experiencing, rather than if the the sitters are well known, like pretty much all of the project work from Judith Joy Ross that collects everyday people based on where they were or what they were doing, i.e visiting a war memorial, attending or teaching elementary school, people she found at a swimming hole, poor people shopping at stores that prey on poor people, etc. There is no right or wrong, but those types of portraits are more impactful for me than a portrait of a well known celebrity.
 

MattKing

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Mod voice on: Give it a break, folks, or follow the OP's excellent suggestion to take it off-line.
Mod voice off.
 
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