DOES JOBO STILL MAKE STUFF?

mshchem · Jan 10, 2020

Henning Serger said:
Most of the tooling of the current machines is indeed new, and not old / remained one.
And therefore it is not that we still have options, but we have again new options (CPP-3, CPP classic, CPE-3). Because the production of processors had to be stopped for several years.
Then in 2012 the new CPP-3 was introduced: A brave move, because at that time the global film market was still in decline. But the introduction was a success nonetheless.
In 2016 the CPE-3 was introduced. Again a success in the market. The first batch was already sold out after only six weeks.
And in 2019 the CPP classic.
Further new products are in the development pipeline.

Best regards,
Henning

This is not entirely the case. The tooling, I'm speaking the vacuum thermoforming tooling for the main body (trough) etc., the injection molding tooling for all the tanks clips, spirals columns is the same tooling Jobo has used for decades. This tooling is precious, once scrapped we won't see anything like it again. Maintenance is very expensive, if Jobo was a big corporation it would probably not have survived.

YES, the electronics are all new, amazing robust heavy duty amazing! I'm sure that Jobo's manufacturing looks nothing like it did in the 80's and 90's. Smaller in scale. I have 5 Jobo machines (don't ask it just happens ) the CPP3 is amazing, it seems expensive, but it's not. Adjusted for inflation it's more machine, more reliable best all around option. Everything is still manufactured in Germany, thus the excellent quality.

Regarding the lift arm. The hub that attaches to the lift is now made with fiberglass reinforced plastic, this should solve the problem of these parts breaking. The arm stop on the lift is there to STOP the lift arm from being over extended, it's not there to hold the lift up. If you continuously use this stop to lock the arm up it puts too much stress on the hub.

If a person intends to process a variety of films, especially reversal films the current Jobo offerings are great. My 25- 30 year old CPP2 is still going. With the help of Catlabs (Jobo USA), I've managed to keep this well used machine running, but nothing lasts forever.

The heart of these new machines represent 30 years of advances in computers, electronics, motors, and design. Well worth the price.
MHOFWIW, Best Regards Mike.

Henning Serger · Jan 10, 2020

Hello Mike,
maybe you have misunderstood me.

mshchem said:
This is not entirely the case.

As I've written I have referred to the new processors. And to realize them indeed new, very expensive tools were needed and had to be made new. E.g. for the troughs of the processors, which are now stronger and more robust than the former, older versions.

Well, for products like the smaller tanks (1510, 1520 etc.) no new tools were needed, because they have been in continuous production without interruption.

Best regards,
Henning

mshchem · Jan 10, 2020

Henning Serger said:
Hello Mike,
maybe you have misunderstood me.

As I've written I have referred to the new processors. And to realize them indeed new, very expensive tools were needed and had to be made new. E.g. for the troughs of the processors, which are now stronger and more robust than the former, older versions.

Well, for products like the smaller tanks (1510, 1520 etc.) no new tools were needed, because they have been in continuous production without interruption.

Best regards,
Henning

I understand your point. The tooling to make thermoformed parts like these would be very expensive. Jobo is using the same color of extruded ABS sheet which helps to reduce costs,,thus the all black units. I would guess that Jobo is operating at about 2 to 3 % of the volume they had in the 80's. I'm sure that plastic resin has been optimized where practical. The thing I've seen that's an improvement with the trough is the relocation of the overflow outlet. This will help people from flooding the controls and ruining the machine.

Jobo makes the best all in one machine, it's been that way for 30 years. The price is easy to justify.
Best Regards Mike

Sal Santamaura · Jan 10, 2020

Henning Serger said:
Hello Sal,
as promised I have asked: The temperature control at the CPP-3 and CPP classic is not done by a thermostat like in the cheaper CPE-3, but completely done by a digital control unit. It controls both the heating and fresh (cold) water when needed (both CPPs have an integrated pump).

Concerning sturdiness / robustness: Both the CPP-3 / CPP classic and the CPE-3 are improved in essential parts compared to the former JOBO processors like the CPP-2, CPA and CPE-2plus. For example the troughs / trays are more robust and durable. And improved and much stronger motors are built in the new, current processors. New PCBs are used as well. There are also some further design improvements.

Best regards,
Henning

Thank you very much for following up, Henning. That leaves just one further question. On the CPPclassic, if one rotates the rotation speed control to the slowest position, how does resulting drum rpm compare to drum speed on a CPP2 with its control also at the slowest position? Thanks again for all you do to keep us informed.

Henning Serger · Jan 23, 2020

Sal Santamaura said:
Thank you very much for following up, Henning. That leaves just one further question. On the CPPclassic, if one rotates the rotation speed control to the slowest position, how does resulting drum rpm compare to drum speed on a CPP2 with its control also at the slowest position? Thanks again for all you do to keep us informed.

Hello Sal,
I've got the reply from the factory:
With the CPP classic you can control the rotation speed from 25 rpm to 75 rpm continuously. Electronically controlled. You are free to choose your speed.
At lowest rpm one full turn before changing the direction is guaranteed.
And the changing point is always a bit different: Very important, as it delivers perfect even development without any artefacts (They could occur if the drum would stop and change direction always at the exact same turning point).

Best regards,
Henning

Sal Santamaura · Jan 23, 2020

Henning Serger said:
Hello Sal,
I've got the reply from the factory:
With the CPP classic you can control the rotation speed from 25 rpm to 75 rpm continuously. Electronically controlled. You are free to choose your speed.
At lowest rpm one full turn before changing the direction is guaranteed.
And the changing point is always a bit different: Very important, as it delivers perfect even development without any artefacts (They could occur if the drum would stop and change direction always at the exact same turning point).

Best regards,
Henning

Thank you very much once again Henning for your dedicated follow up. It's most appreciated in a world where reliable information is often difficult to obtain.

While 25 rpm is very slightly faster than the approximately 22.5 rpm one gets from a CPP2 rotation control at its lowest setting, that's still slow enough to avoid excessive agitation issues with some pyro developers.

Most important in your reply is the description of one full turn before changing direction. To me, that means the CPPclassic eliminates concern about using Expert drums at 25 rpm that was reported in this CPP3 post:

https://www.largeformatphotography....help-needed!&p=1496826&viewfull=1#post1496826

Henning Serger · Jan 23, 2020

Sal Santamaura said:
Thank you very much once again Henning for your dedicated follow up. It's most appreciated in a world where reliable information is often difficult to obtain.

While 25 rpm is very slightly faster than the approximately 22.5 rpm one gets from a CPP2 rotation control at its lowest setting, that's still slow enough to avoid excessive agitation issues with some pyro developers.

Most important in your reply is the description of one full turn before changing direction. To me, that means the CPPclassic eliminates concern about using Expert drums at 25 rpm that was reported in this CPP3 post:

https://www.largeformatphotography....help-needed!&p=1496826&viewfull=1#post1496826

Hello Sal,

for the conventional CPP-3 it is recommended to use the speeds between 35 and 75 rpm.
So the CPP classic as the latest JOBO processor model offers a bit wider range.

Best regards,
Henning

CatLABS · Jan 25, 2020

mpirie said:
If Jobo want to continue making inroads to the growing analogue community, then restarting the supply of processor spares like new motors for CPA/CPP would go a long way.

Mike

Mike,

Parts of old Jobo processors are depleting, and in some cases all gone. We do our best to offer legacy product support, and even manufacture our own spares sometimes to service these now 50 year old machines.
For their share - Jobo offer an unconditional buy back program for all existing Jobo machines, with a cash credit towards the purchase of a new Jobo processor, CPE3 or a CPP3.
Between these two options, you should be all set, and Jobo is making its way towards a sustainable future.

CatLABS · Jan 25, 2020

guangong said:
My ancient Jobo PCE processor with lift finally died. At one time the US distributor provided repair services. No more. Also, looking over the list of available parts and darkroom supplies, I get the impression that with regards to photographic equipment, they are simply selling remainder stock, while the home company ‘s interests have shifted to manufacturing medical apparatus. Anyone in Germany familiar with current status of Jobo products?

I am not sure where this data was pulled from, but Jobo and CatLABS are active and have been active members on APUG/Photrio all along.
Indeed servicing older machines is becoming harder due to lack of parts and over all wear (your machine is likely 40+ years old), but Jobo is offering an unconditional buy back program for any old machine with a cash credit towards the purchase of a new CPE3 or CPP3 machine. Service and parts for those are readily available.

As for Jobo - they are literally working full tilt to meet the global demand for Jobo products. Demand is in fact so high, lead times are sometimes quite long.
It is a good sign all around. The Jobo factory is live and well, with analog gear being churned out on a daily basis.
Again, i am not sure where the bit RE medical devices is from, but Jobo is 100% focused on analog product production, and has been for years, a commitment they have re-enforced with the introduction of new products and services.

mshchem · Jan 25, 2020

I only had to wait 3 weeks for my New CPP3 from CatLABS. If this beautiful new machine lasts as long as my CPP2 (still going) I will be processing film well into the 2060's .

The beauty of the system is every tank, reel, etc. is completely compatible with the new machines.

AgX · Jan 25, 2020

CatLABS said:
For their share - Jobo offer an unconditional buy back program for all existing Jobo machines, with a cash credit towards the purchase of a new Jobo processor, CPE3 or a CPP3.

Interesting.

But... why do we learn this from you and not from Jobo themselves ??
At their site is no information of this kind.

MattKing · Jan 25, 2020

AgX said:
Interesting.

But... why do we learn this from you and not from Jobo themselves ??
At their site is no information of this kind.

They probably only offer it through their distributors, and CatLabs is the North American distributor.

guangong · Jan 26, 2020

CatLABS said:
I am not sure where this data was pulled from, but Jobo and CatLABS are active and have been active members on APUG/Photrio all along.
Indeed servicing older machines is becoming harder due to lack of parts and over all wear (your machine is likely 40+ years old), but Jobo is offering an unconditional buy back program for any old machine with a cash credit towards the purchase of a new CPE3 or CPP3 machine. Service and parts for those are readily available.

As for Jobo - they are literally working full tilt to meet the global demand for Jobo products. Demand is in fact so high, lead times are sometimes quite long.
It is a good sign all around. The Jobo factory is live and well, with analog gear being churned out on a daily basis.
Again, i am not sure where the bit RE medical devices is from, but Jobo is 100% focused on analog product production, and has been for years, a commitment they have re-enforced with the introduction of new products and services.

Very reassuring! As for the medical apparatus, I believe I got that from their business summery page on internet. Nothing wrong about manufacturing products in different fields.

CropDusterMan · Jan 26, 2020

I wish they'd make the 4x5/8x10 drums again. Best ever.

Sal Santamaura · Jan 26, 2020

CropDusterMan said:
I wish they'd make the 4x5/8x10 drums again. Best ever.

https://www.catlabs.info/product/3006

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/3005-Jobo-Expert-Drum-5-Sheet-Developing-Tank

removed account4 · Jan 26, 2020

jnantz said:
cat labs is their US distributer >>> https://www.catlabs.info

and he's been active here and the LF forum for about 10 years ...

CropDusterMan · Feb 6, 2020

Sal Santamaura said:
https://www.catlabs.info/product/3006

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/3005-Jobo-Expert-Drum-5-Sheet-Developing-Tank

Thanks Sal,
But the price is insane. $600-700 for it? That's beyond crazy.
That's par with what I've seen on Ebay.

J

Sal Santamaura · Feb 6, 2020

CropDusterMan said:
Thanks Sal,
But the price is insane. $600-700 for it? That's beyond crazy.
That's par with what I've seen on Ebay.

J

Those are brand new. When people are no longer willing to pay what it takes for low-volume manufacture of specialty products, said products will stop being available. Then used ones on eBay is all you'll be able to get. The choice is yours.

Lachlan Young · Feb 6, 2020

Sal Santamaura said:
https://www.catlabs.info/product/3006

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/3005-Jobo-Expert-Drum-5-Sheet-Developing-Tank

It would be nice if a batch of #3004 could be done sometime - and I think people underestimate how much hand assembly is involved in making each Expert Drum.

Ai Print · Feb 6, 2020

Sal Santamaura said:
Those are brand new. When people are no longer willing to pay what it takes for low-volume manufacture of specialty products, said products will stop being available. Then used ones on eBay is all you'll be able to get. The choice is yours.

Very true. I now have 6x 3010 drums, the last one I bought was from B&H last year, full retail.

Sirius Glass · Feb 6, 2020

I paid $300 ten years ago for a Jobo 3010 Expert Drum. Considering the use I have gotten out of it, $600 would not be too much for it.

CropDusterMan · Feb 7, 2020

There's actually a video on youtube somewhere showing the assembly of an Expert drum at the factory,
including a demo using a transparent drum to show agitation. It's a great system, just beyond my
logical reach.

AgX · Feb 7, 2020

Henning Serger · Feb 7, 2020

Sal Santamaura said:
Those are brand new. When people are no longer willing to pay what it takes for low-volume manufacture of specialty products, said products will stop being available. Then used ones on eBay is all you'll be able to get. The choice is yours.

Yes Sal, exactly.
I've seen the production there in the JOBO factory many times. And I have talked to people working there. I've seen the production of the Expert drums, too.
They are highest-precision work! People who think you could do these drums cheap really don't know anything about their production.
The workers must be highly skilled and need years of experience to manufacture these drums in best quality.
And if you handle them properly they will serve you decades. And if you consider that you get excellent value over the years.

Best regards,
Henning

dkonigs · Feb 7, 2020

Henning Serger said:
Yes Sal, exactly.
I've seen the production there in the JOBO factory many times. And I have talked to people working there. I've seen the production of the Expert drums, too.
They are highest-precision work! People who think you could do these drums cheap really don't know anything about their production.
The workers must be highly skilled and need years of experience to manufacture these drums in best quality.
And if you handle them properly they will serve you decades. And if you consider that you get excellent value over the years.

Best regards,
Henning

I only wish that they put that same level of quality into the foot pump they sell to accompany the drum. The latest version is probably the cheapest possible thing that could barely do the job, and is sold at a price that's too high for what you get. Makes me wonder if the older pumps were better, but they couldn't justify another production run.

DOES JOBO STILL MAKE STUFF?

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