DOES JOBO STILL MAKE STUFF?

guangong · Jan 2, 2020

My ancient Jobo PCE processor with lift finally died. At one time the US distributor provided repair services. No more. Also, looking over the list of available parts and darkroom supplies, I get the impression that with regards to photographic equipment, they are simply selling remainder stock, while the home company ‘s interests have shifted to manufacturing medical apparatus. Anyone in Germany familiar with current status of Jobo products?

Tom Kershaw · Jan 2, 2020

They are available. Take a look at www.jobo.com

Henning Serger · Jan 2, 2020

guangong said:
Anyone in Germany familiar with current status of Jobo products?

I've visited their factory many times, several times last year (2019) alone.
Some months ago I have published a report about the JOBO company and their factory in the German film photography magazine "PhotoKlassik".
And in early summer 2019 JOBO and I have done a two week film photography workshop tour together in China (report about that tour is published in the current edition of PhotoKlassik).

JOBO is not only alive and well: They even stopped offering almost all of their digital products and are focussing again on film photography. Their future is serving the film photography market. They are very strong believers in the long term and sustainable film revival. Therefore they have introduced new products like the CPP-3, CPP classic and CPE-3 processor. And they are currently evaluating introducing further new products. Their sales are increasing.

Best regards,
Henning

lensman_nh · Jan 2, 2020

Henning,

Your news about Jobo is very welcome. I was very surprised when I saw the CPE/CPP-3 products being released. I had been working on replacing the control board on my old CPE-2 with an Arduino so that I had something to replace it with. But now, I intend to replace my CPE-2 in the next couple of years with (hopefully) a CPP-3 and lift instead. At my age, it will likely last as long as I will.

I would really like to see Jobo release a deep tank processor like the NOVA darkroom products ones. I have a duolab I use for prints because it has a deep tank.

J.

guangong · Jan 2, 2020

Henning Serger said:
I've visited their factory many times, several times last year (2019) alone.
Some months ago I have published a report about the JOBO company and their factory in the German film photography magazine "PhotoKlassik".
And in early summer 2019 JOBO and I have done a two week film photography workshop tour together in China (report about that tour is published in the current edition of PhotoKlassik).

JOBO is not only alive and well: They even stopped offering almost all of their digital products and are focussing again on film photography. Their future is serving the film photography market. They are very strong believers in the long term and sustainable film revival. Therefore they have introduced new products like the CPP-3, CPP classic and CPE-3 processor. And they are currently evaluating introducing further new products. Their sales are increasing.

Best regards,
Henning

Good news! Thanks for the update.

Sal Santamaura · Jan 2, 2020

Henning Serger said:
...they have introduced new products like the...CPP classic...And they are currently evaluating introducing further new products...

Thank you for pointing that out, Henning, I'd not previously heard of the CPPclassic. A page translated into English that describes it is here:

https://translate.google.com/transl...-jobo-stellt-neuen-prozessor-vor/&prev=search

The CPPclassic appears to be a CPA2 plus an added digital thermometer display. In your future interactions with the people at JOBO, please let them know that at least one customer (me ) would pay just as much or more for a "CPP2classic" that duplicates the original CPP2. Rugged and reliable TTL logic control and lack of complicated/limiting firmware menus aren't advantages only for the Chinese. Some of us in the west, including this retired electrical engineer, embrace a "keep it simple" and "design for long-term supportability" approach. Thanks in advance for passing along this preference.

Lachlan Young · Jan 2, 2020

Sal Santamaura said:
Thank you for pointing that out, Henning, I'd not previously heard of the CPPclassic. A page translated into English that describes it is here:

https://translate.google.com/transl...-jobo-stellt-neuen-prozessor-vor/&prev=search

The CPPclassic appears to be a CPA2 plus an added digital thermometer display. In your future interactions with the people at JOBO, please let them know that at least one customer (me ) would pay just as much or more for a "CPP2classic" that duplicates the original CPP2. Rugged and reliable TTL logic control and lack of complicated/limiting firmware menus aren't advantages only for the Chinese. Some of us in the west, including this retired electrical engineer, embrace a "keep it simple" and "design for long-term supportability" approach. Thanks in advance for passing along this preference.

I'd second this - or an electric/ electronic upgrade/ update kit for extant machines of the CPA-2/ CPP-2 generation

Henning Serger · Jan 2, 2020

Sal Santamaura said:
Thanks in advance for passing along this preference.

Hello Sal,

the CPP classic is most probably already that what you are looking for. Like the CPP-3 technically improved compared to the forerunners CPP2/CPA2, but with the classic control elements.
You can order the CPP classic directly at JOBO, and they will ship it to you to the US.

Best regards,
Henning

Sal Santamaura · Jan 2, 2020

Henning Serger said:
Hello Sal,

the CPP classic is most probably already that what you are looking for. Like the CPP-3 technically improved compared to the forerunners CPP2/CPA2, but with the classic control elements.
You can order the CPP classic directly at JOBO, and they will ship it to you to the US.

Best regards,
Henning

Henning,

The CPA2 had a simple bi-mettalic thermostat that was incapable of maintaining tight temperature control, especially if ambient air temperature differed greatly from the water bath setting. The CPP2 had a closed-loop digital temperature control, set using three rotary knobs for tens, units and tenths of a degree C, and held the set temperature to within +/- 0.1 degree.

The CPPclassic's control panel looks like a CPA2 with added digital thermometer. Are you saying the CPPclassic is really a CPP2 with one single knob (instead of three) that sets a closed-loop digital temperature control value? Or is the CPPclassic's temperature control knob really connected to a simple bi-mettalic thermostat?

Thanks again.

Henning Serger · Jan 2, 2020

Hello Sal,
the CPP classic is a CPP-3, but with the classic control elements (knobs) instead of a menue layout.
Concerning the thermostat: I will ask and then come back to you.

Best regards,
Henning

Renato Tonelli · Jan 2, 2020

I hope they will consider making a Jobo ATL-1500/2500 type of processor; specifically one with a small footprint that accepts the 2500 series tanks ant the Expert Drums to 8x10 film.
I wonder if I could afford it.

Lachlan Young · Jan 2, 2020

Renato Tonelli said:
I hope they will consider making a Jobo ATL-1500/2500 type of processor; specifically one with a small footprint that accepts the 2500 series tanks ant the Expert Drums to 8x10 film.
I wonder if I could afford it.

I could be totally wrong, but I think it would require new/ unique tooling for certain parts - I vaguely recall the ATL 1000/1500 have commonality with the CPE and the ATL 2x00/ 3000 etc with the CPP/ CPA, though I can't remember if it's to do with motors, mouldings, the pumps or the lift! A CPE-3+ that could handle up to the 3004/3005 drums would probably sell pretty well - and I wonder if a pump system and auto lift like the ATL 1x00 series could be enacted as an optional extra.

Renato Tonelli · Jan 2, 2020

Lachlan Young said:
I could be totally wrong, but I think it would require new/ unique tooling for certain parts - I vaguely recall the ATL 1000/1500 have commonality with the CPE and the ATL 2x00/ 3000 etc with the CPP/ CPA, though I can't remember if it's to do with motors, mouldings, the pumps or the lift! A CPE-3+ that could handle up to the 3004/3005 drums would probably sell pretty well - and I wonder if a pump system and auto lift like the ATL 1x00 series could be enacted as an optional extra.

I think you are correct about requiring a retooling. These machines (ATL’s) are pretty complex, and the selling price may put them out of reach for most of us.

Lachlan Young · Jan 2, 2020

Renato Tonelli said:
I think you are correct about requiring a retooling. These machines (ATL’s) are pretty complex, and the selling price may put them out of reach for most of us.

Yeah - did some measuring - no way can you get an expert drum into the footprint of a CPE and keep a reasonable space for the bottles, or comply with the centreline of the lift. You could take about 30-40cm off the length of a CPP, if not going beyond a 3005 drum, but how much that would really save in bulk etc is open to question.

removed account4 · Jan 2, 2020

guangong said:
My ancient Jobo PCE processor with lift finally died. At one time the US distributor provided repair services. No more. Also, looking over the list of available parts and darkroom supplies, I get the impression that with regards to photographic equipment, they are simply selling remainder stock, while the home company ‘s interests have shifted to manufacturing medical apparatus. Anyone in Germany familiar with current status of Jobo products?

cat labs is their US distributer >>> https://www.catlabs.info

Tom Kershaw · Jan 2, 2020

Renato Tonelli said:
I think you are correct about requiring a retooling. These machines (ATL’s) are pretty complex, and the selling price may put them out of reach for most of us.

I wonder what the retail price of a new ATL machine would be, 5000 or 6000 euro?

swchris · Jan 2, 2020

Tom Kershaw said:
I wonder what the retail price of a new ATL machine would be, 5000 or 6000 euro?

Maybe. But I don't know/remember how much the old ones did cost. I've got ATL-1, ATL-2, ATL-3. One given by a friend to me and two bought on Ebay (rather cheap I'd say, 10yrs ago).

If you want to have a new qualitiy product, you have to part with some money. That's how it is...

regards,
chris

mpirie · Jan 3, 2020

If Jobo want to continue making inroads to the growing analogue community, then restarting the supply of processor spares like new motors for CPA/CPP would go a long way.

Mike

markbau · Jan 3, 2020

I’ve owned or used quite a few Jobo products over the years, good stuff generally but I wish they made things a bit sturdier. Every lift arm I’ve managed to snap off and that red plastic thing that keeps the bottles and beakers in place, I’ve broken a few of them too!

Tom Kershaw · Jan 3, 2020

markbau said:
I’ve owned or used quite a few Jobo products over the years, good stuff generally but I wish they made things a bit sturdier. Every lift arm I’ve managed to snap off and that red plastic thing that keeps the bottles and beakers in place, I’ve broken a few of them too!

I would second this. I've not broken anything on my CPP-3 yet, I don't use it everyday, but some of the construction of plastics is not that robust for what is supposed to be a fairly "premium" option.

mshchem · Jan 3, 2020

I've got a CPP3, it's a nice machine. The lift arm attachment point is now made with a fiberglass filled plastic, this adds strength. There's a stop on the lift, keeps operator from over extending the lift. Many people use this stop as a way to lock the arm up. This is what causes undue stress and can contribute to the arm breaking.
I have a CPP2 as well, it's still going fine, as others have said, these machines are so old the electronics are obsolete, the parts are simply not available.
We are lucky that Jobo has maintained it's tooling, we still have the option of CPP3 and CPE2 units.

There are a lot of less expensive ways to process film and prints, but I am amazed at how well thought out the Jobo system is.

Sirius Glass · Jan 3, 2020

The lift arm is a crappy design. Mine was broken off when I purchased it and I will not spend $75 to put on another that will snap off again.

Henning Serger · Jan 10, 2020

Henning Serger said:
Hello Sal,
the CPP classic is a CPP-3, but with the classic control elements (knobs) instead of a menue layout.
Concerning the thermostat: I will ask and then come back to you.

Best regards,
Henning

Hello Sal,
as promised I have asked: The temperature control at the CPP-3 and CPP classic is not done by a thermostat like in the cheaper CPE-3, but completely done by a digital control unit. It controls both the heating and fresh (cold) water when needed (both CPPs have an integrated pump).

Concerning sturdiness / robustness: Both the CPP-3 / CPP classic and the CPE-3 are improved in essential parts compared to the former JOBO processors like the CPP-2, CPA and CPE-2plus. For example the troughs / trays are more robust and durable. And improved and much stronger motors are built in the new, current processors. New PCBs are used as well. There are also some further design improvements.

Best regards,
Henning

Henning Serger · Jan 10, 2020

Tom Kershaw said:
I wonder what the retail price of a new ATL machine would be, 5000 or 6000 euro?

Tom,
at least so much. Depending on the design maybe even more. Because a complete new tooling is necessary. And making these tools is extremely expensive, we are talking about six digit numbers here.....

Best regards,
Henning

Henning Serger · Jan 10, 2020

mshchem said:
We are lucky that Jobo has maintained it's tooling, we still have the option of CPP3 and CPE2 units.

Most of the tooling of the current machines is indeed new, and not old / remained one.
And therefore it is not that we still have options, but we have again new options (CPP-3, CPP classic, CPE-3). Because the production of processors had to be stopped for several years.
Then in 2012 the new CPP-3 was introduced: A brave move, because at that time the global film market was still in decline. But the introduction was a success nonetheless.
In 2016 the CPE-3 was introduced. Again a success in the market. The first batch was already sold out after only six weeks.
And in 2019 the CPP classic.
Further new products are in the development pipeline.

Best regards,
Henning

DOES JOBO STILL MAKE STUFF?

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