Does filter quality matter?

wiltw · May 10, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
There will always be the cheapest company. I have and own some Tiffen filters and while I usually prefer the high end filters, I have been happy with Tiffen filters and I have never had a negative experience with Tiffen filters. In all the negativity expressed about Tiffen filters, not one specific documented piece of information has been posted so far.

Sorry, but I did not have someone come over to my house to note and document my testing of a Tiffen Polarizer decades ago, which behaved obviously like a Prism, the image it presented moved about as the filter was rotated. I crushed that filter rather than sell if off to unsuspecting buyer.

I did post link to the filter tests by Ken & Christine, showing the inferiority of the Tiffen compared to the others subjected to same test conditions.

DREW WILEY · May 10, 2022

Alan - ND filters are a more complex topic, because none of the cheaper ones are actually hue neutral. Most trend a little greenish. Likewise, polarizers are are more complex topic; but I avoid em entirely except at the lab copy stand station, and even there it's a last resort option, even with the best of em.

As far as Marumi goes - they never were considered a junk brand. Yes, a little less expensive; but that might be entirely distribution related. And yes, rebranded filters are going to be more expensive because they inherently involved an extra profit markup.

Coatings have all kinds of purposes. It's a way to fine-tune transmission characteristics, for example, which can be quite important in color film and even digital camera applications.

NB23 is off in his own little make-believe world, so it's getting useless to respond to him. Now he's trying to tell Hollywood cinematographers what cheapskates they are with their equipment. One more job he can apply for. He seems to be trolling with sheer nonsense at this point.

BrianShaw · May 10, 2022

wiltw said:
I did post link to the filter tests by Ken & Christine, showing the inferiority of the Tiffen compared to the others subjected to same test conditions.

I'm having a bit of a problem believing those tests. Haven't put enough brain cells into determining what the testing flaw may be, if there is a flaw, but the pictures that are presented as data simply don't jive with my experience.

reddesert · May 10, 2022

If you shoot close to or into the sun with an uncoated filter on a complex lens, you are more likely to get flare or veiling glare than if the filter is AR coated, because there are (a larger number of) opportunities for stray light to bounce back out of the lens, off the surface of the filter, and then again into the lens. So it's possible to create a test in which an uncoated filter is visibly worse than a coated filter. But that doesn't mean that if you shoot away from the sun you'll notice the difference between the filters.

Polarizing filters are usually, I think always, a sandwich of glass and polarizing film (originally made by Polaroid). IOW there is always a laminate, unlike colored filters where the glass itself can be dyed. If the sandwich delaminates then there are bad effects. However, it doesn't mean that all filters, or even all polarizers, from a particular company are bad. A visibly flawed filter will obviously affect your pictures. There aren't many demonstrations that filters have invisible flaws that are still pictorially important.

kl122002 · May 10, 2022

Old filters aren't bad, just not same as today's high transparency that designed for digital cameras. It you using them on digital cameras you will soon find out . I have been using very old Seiko , Kenko, Toshiba, Hoya filters when I was student. For B&W they aren't bad , and if my memory is correct Hoya filters is actually not expensive as todays.
But I won't use them any more due to the coating . I have found my old Hoya MC coating start to degrade after 40 years. I wonder whether those much older Toshiba filters would stand .

If you would like to also try differenct creative filter effects, try Hoyarex, which is just like Cokin and excellent built quality.

DREW WILEY · May 10, 2022

There is a whole range of Hoya filters at different price points. They have a true industrial division too. I have NEVER had a coating failure with Hoya; and some of mine have gone through sheer torture in the mountains and desert for decades; but I have only intermittent experience in humid tropical conditions, so maybe that is a factor. Held up better than B&W. Sooner or later I drop one; and that sometimes does it. Now I buy strictly the HMC multi-coated variety - best bang for the buck there is, provided they have the type I need.

Alan Edward Klein · May 10, 2022

The more expensive B+W filters are brass. Not sure what the Hoya's are?

DREW WILEY · May 10, 2022

Hoya has anodized aluminum rings; but so do some very expensive brands. Brass machines better and is less likely to seize if overtightened, though I wouldn't bet on it (don't overtighten to begin with, if you want to be safe). Brass filters are also heavier, so a liability some cases. I have both kinds. The worst cheapo filters have black lacquered rings where the paint dissolves in contact with most lens cleaners and makes a mess.

kl122002 · May 10, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
There is a whole range of Hoya filters at different price points. They have a true industrial division too. I have NEVER had a coating failure with Hoya; and some of mine have gone through sheer torture in the mountains and desert for decades; but I have only intermittent experience in humid tropical conditions, so maybe that is a factor. Held up better than B&W. Sooner or later I drop one; and that sometimes does it. Now I buy strictly the HMC multi-coated variety - best bang for the buck there is, provided they have the type I need.

I believe these days Hoya should be doing much better than 40years when MC coating was just added.

Maybe I would give it a try later.

kobaltus · May 11, 2022

I have good experience with Nikkor, BW, Sigma and Hoya filters. Hoya filters are still available here and the prices are low. It is not only that coating define quality. I read somewhere - I do not remember the source, that Tiffen filters are plastic aka polycarbonate made and that the Hoya still use glass.

NB23 · May 11, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
NB23 - go tell Tiffen that if you know better, not me.

Tiffen can ask Hoya and B+W how they do it.

As for Motion vs. Still, the standards are very different. The motion picture world does not need coated filters.

Alan Edward Klein · May 11, 2022

I just found out from B&H that B+W has made name changes to some of their filters. But the product is still the same as the older model according to B&H.

Here is the new model name for example:

B+W #590/090 Red Light MRC Basic Filter (77mm)

BH #BW590B77 • MFR #66-1102686

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1671303-REG/b_w_66_1102686_77mm_light_red_590.html?bvnotificationId=04ccb5a6-d131-11ec-9587-0a2de21c2f0d&bvmessageType=QUESTION_ANSWERED&bvrecipientDomain=comcast.net#answer/7453835

Here's the same one I bought two years ago.

B+W 77mm Light Red MRC 090M Filter

BH #BW090MC77 • MFR #66-010378

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/7762-REG/B_W_66010378_77mm_090_Light_Red.html?fromDisList=y

Here's a good resource on filters from B+W.

https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1x9LZAkTES.pdf

Alan Edward Klein · May 11, 2022

Hmmm. They don't look the same. I'm checking with B&H for a clarification.

kl122002 · May 11, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
I just found out from B&H that B+W has made name changes to some of their filters. But the product is still the same as the older model according to B&H.

Here is the new model name for example:

B+W #590/090 Red Light MRC Basic Filter (77mm)
BH #BW590B77 • MFR #66-1102686

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1671303-REG/b_w_66_1102686_77mm_light_red_590.html?bvnotificationId=04ccb5a6-d131-11ec-9587-0a2de21c2f0d&bvmessageType=QUESTION_ANSWERED&bvrecipientDomain=comcast.net#answer/7453835

Here's the same one I bought two years ago.

B+W 77mm Light Red MRC 090M Filter
BH #BW090MC77 • MFR #66-010378

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/7762-REG/B_W_66010378_77mm_090_Light_Red.html?fromDisList=y

Here's a good resource on filters from B+W.

https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1x9LZAkTES.pdf

They just change the name and appearance then mark a higher price

xkaes · May 11, 2022

DREW WILEY said:
I have NEVER had a coating failure with Hoya; and some of mine have gone through sheer torture in the mountains and desert for decades;..
Now I buy strictly the HMC multi-coated variety - best bang for the buck there is, provided they have the type I need.

My experience exactly. I have Hoya HMC UV filters on all my lenses -- 99% of the time.

Sirius Glass · May 11, 2022

The only filters that I have that failed were received that way. One is a very old red filter with a chip in the center of glass although advertized at "in good shape" and the other is a polarizer that is missing one of the filters. None of the other filters I have purchased has ever failed, not even from Tiffen or Hoya.

DREW WILEY · May 11, 2022

Kobaltus , Tiffin makes glass filters, just like I already described. But there are numerous types of plastic filters being made, some quite expensive, some cheap. Other than plastics in general being electrostatic (attracting dust), easy to scratch, and needing to be well shaded, they differ dramatically in quality because very different types of plastic are potentially involved. Plastic is not necessarily a bad word. All depends.

Alan Edward Klein · May 11, 2022

My eyeglass lenses are plastic. Of course, I can see chromatic aberration at the top or bottom when I look at a line with a lot of contrast.

DREW WILEY · May 11, 2022

That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with them being plastic, Alan, but with them being simple lenses. Filters are flat.

flavio81 · May 11, 2022

momus said:
I haven't seen any difference between a cheap filter and an expensive one.

You can see the difference between a good filter and a bad one. And maybe this doesn't have too much to do with price.

Sirius Glass said:
That does not work for black& white film.

Indeed, for b&w color filters are a good asset and the end result is much better than doing the same in the digital world.

DREW WILEY said:
<name redacted out> is off in his own little make-believe world, so it's getting useless to respond to him

Don't forget there's an "ignore" button, as useful as a yellow filter when shooting B&W

Alan Edward Klein said:
The more expensive B+W filters are brass. Not sure what the Hoya's are?

I woudn't care too much about the filter ring material as long as it screws and unscrews OK witthout damaging the lens. It's the glass part the one that needs to be very good. In any case, yes, the B+W filters look like having the most massive ring...

flavio81 · May 11, 2022

I came a bit late to this discussion. I own exactly 48 filters (i have made a small excel file to know which are they and where they are), diameters 27mm (Zeiss Contessa) to 77mm.

I have filters of many brands and the worst filters can be easily singled out because they have some abberations or weird artifacts near the rim of the glass.

Then, you can easily check if the coating is good by getting a bright lamp and looking through the filter. The worst filters will get significantly lowered contrast. Same check can be used by looking through your viewfinder, with a lens on, and examining if the image drops in contrast when the filter is in front of the lens, when framing a bright object such as a desk lamp against a dark background.

The really good filters don't create a loss of contrast / added ghosts.

I usually don't like "protection" filters because all except the best filters will add a little contrast drop. And then many "protection" filters are not color-neutral. They also can create a loss of image quality, check out "Gary Reese Lens Tests" where he does some tests and the impact of quality can be strong.

I own filters of many brands: Hoya, Pentax, Nikon, Toshiba, Tiffen, BW, Kenko, Visico, Contax, Canon, Kaiser.

For me the best filters are the camera brand filters -- Pentax SMC, Nikon filters are great. Canon, i can't judge since the ones I have are on bad shape. I also have one Contax filter ('80s, red), also great. Nikon makes the best filter cases, btw.

Besides those, i find B+W filters really good, as well as most Hoya ones. Kaiser also seems good (german made, seem made by B+W). Kenko MC also seem good.

I usually avoid anything that says "vivitar" but i got a skylight filter marked "Vivitar Series 1 VMC" that is well coated and seems sufficiently well made, so it has the honor of sitting on top of my Nikkor-N 28/2.0, a nice lens.

I guess my most favorite filters are the bayonet Pentax SMC filters created for the Pentax 6x7 lenses. They are easy to attach and they are really, really well built. Those I do use as "protection" filters!

flavio81 · May 12, 2022

This is an example from Gary Reese's test. He uses subjective quality grades, using the same film, same subject,and projecting his slides.

Canon FD 135mm f/3.5 Pre-S.C. breech
Canon F-1 w/ mirror and diaphragm prefire

Vignetting: A- @ f/3.5, A thereafter
Distortion: slight pincushion

Aperture Center Corner
f/3.5 B B-
f/5.6 B+ B
f/8 A- B
f/11 B+ B
f/16 B B
f/22 B B

Notes:
moderately low contrast at f/3.5 and f/22;
moderate contrast at f/5.6, f/11 and f/16;
moderately high contrast at f/8.

same camera and lens sample as above, with a generic brand UV filter

Aperture Center Corner
f/3.5 C+ C+

same camera and lens sample as above, with a Canon brand UV filter

Aperture Center Corner
f/3.5 B- B-

Alan Edward Klein · May 12, 2022

B+W have around 8 layers of coatings.

Does filter quality matter?

B+W #590/090 Red Light MRC Basic Filter (77mm)​

B+W 77mm Light Red MRC 090M Filter​

B+W #590/090 Red Light MRC Basic Filter (77mm)​

B+W 77mm Light Red MRC 090M Filter​

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency

B+W #590/090 Red Light MRC Basic Filter (77mm)

B+W 77mm Light Red MRC 090M Filter

B+W #590/090 Red Light MRC Basic Filter (77mm)

B+W 77mm Light Red MRC 090M Filter