Does d23 have expiration issues...

aste · Sep 14, 2010

...like d76, or does it keep pretty well?

I have a batch that has been sitting for a few months now, since I have been on hiatus, and I'm not sure if I should try using it for a camera test I'm doing, or just use something fresh. I'd hate to waste it, but then I'd hate to waste my test.

What do you think?

Thanks

Saganich · Sep 14, 2010

Keeps very well. I would not anticipate a problem.

aste · Sep 14, 2010

Thanks Saganich

Anscojohn · Sep 15, 2010

I found a liter of D23 stock in the back under my sink that had been there more than two years. It looked fine; it worked fine.
And I have used the same liter of D23 stock, replenished with DK25R for so long it was dark brown. It worked fine until I had processed about twenty rolls in the liter. I then dumped it. D23 is very stable, as Saganich avers.

aste · Sep 15, 2010

Well, I won't blame the d23 for weird issues on the negatives then.

I'm testing a Rolleiflex TLR to see if it is worth sending off for a shutter overhaul. I finally figured out how to load it so that the advancing mechanism works properly, so I shot a roll of film on the one shutter speed that appears to work-- 1/500th.

The exposures of the negatives suggest 1/500th is accurate, but I got uneven development and dark spots on the negatives.

I'm thinking it was probably due mainly to my half arsed development, since I just sat the film in the d23 for 30min while I did other things, but I'm going to run a new roll through the camera and do a by-the-book development to make sure it isn't something screwy with the camera.

Anyway, John, the camera looks alot like the one in your avatar

Terrence Brennan · Sep 17, 2010

Saganich said:
Keeps very well. I would not anticipate a problem.

I second that.

I had a 4-litre jug, filled right to the brim, which I used for 3-1/2 years. I replenished with DK-25R, and only replaced it because I had developed some film at 100℉, and the developer was full of little bits of emulsion.

Jim Noel · Sep 17, 2010

Yes, it is your development technique, not the D-23.
You need to agitate at the beginning and at some point during the development period. How much and when is dependent on which development technique you intend to use. Some agitate continuously, some at 1 minute intervals some only about 2 or 3 times during a long period like your 30 minutes.

BetterSense · Sep 17, 2010

While we are discussing D23, does everyone use 23mL/roll replenishment rate?

I use 4 tablespoons sulfite and 2 teaspoons metol per liter.

How long do you replenish? I usually mix up 1/2 as much replenisher as developer and go until all the replenisher is gone.

When you mix a new batch, do you mix any of the old batch in with the new?

What do you store your D23 in? I've been using PET cranberry juice bottles but I'm thinking of going back to glass.

I've found D23 to give very fine grain at a substantial speed penalty, kind of how people describe microdol-X. It's just the thing for my 1/2 frame camera in harsh lighting.

David Lindquist · Sep 17, 2010

Kodak Publication No. J-1 "Processing Chemicals and Formulas for Black and White Photography" (6th ed., copyright 1963) has some information about shelf life and capacity of D-23. For "Keeping properties without use" this reference gives 6 months for D-23 in a full stoppered bottle.

Well this isn't quite what we want to know, what we want to know is something like how long will it last used within its useful capacity when returned to a full stoppered bottle between uses. For whatever reason, this publication doesn't give that information. Personally based on this information, I'm currently assuming a shelf life of 6 months; I replenish and return to full stoppered bottles between uses. The developer is out in a tray for an hour or so each time it's used. Based on experience already posted, I'm probably being more conservative here than I need to be.

As far as useful capacity, Publication J-1 gives 20 8 X 10 sheets per gallon without replenishment. For replenishment it says to add ¾ oz. of DK-25R per 80 square inches of film developed and to discard the developer after "about 100 rolls (8000 square inches) of film have been developed per gallon." Doing the arithmetic, ¾ fluid oz. = 22.1775 ml. I use 22 ml. And at the rate I do photography, I don't reach the 8000 square inch usage within the 6 months shelf life.

One thing I should do is compare fresh D-23 with D-23 nearing the end of its shelf/capacity life and see how close the Zone I and Zone VIII densities are for the two cases. Of course when I do this, I'll do it using the same lot of film and do the trials in triplicate. At least. Don't hold your breath waiting for these results.
David Lindquist

David Lindquist · Sep 17, 2010

BetterSense said:
While we are discussing D23, does everyone use 23mL/roll replenishment rate?

I use 4 tablespoons sulfite and 2 teaspoons metol per liter.

How long do you replenish? I usually mix up 1/2 as much replenisher as developer and go until all the replenisher is gone.

When you mix a new batch, do you mix any of the old batch in with the new?

What do you store your D23 in? I've been using PET cranberry juice bottles but I'm thinking of going back to glass.

I've found D23 to give very fine grain at a substantial speed penalty, kind of how people describe microdol-X. It's just the thing for my 1/2 frame camera in harsh lighting.

Since I have an electronic balance, I weigh 7.5 grams metol and 100 grams sodium sulfite per liter.

See my previous post about how I replenish

I haven't been mixing any of the old batch in with the new. Will be interested in seeing responses to this

I store in brown glass bottles with teflon lined screw caps. This may be overkill, but I don't have to wonder.

I've been trying D-23 with T Max 400 sheet film. I get an E.I. of 250 compared with 400 when using XTOL diluted 1+1.
David

cjbecker · Jun 14, 2021

David Lindquist said:
Kodak Publication No. J-1 "Processing Chemicals and Formulas for Black and White Photography" (6th ed., copyright 1963) has some information about shelf life and capacity of D-23. For "Keeping properties without use" this reference gives 6 months for D-23 in a full stoppered bottle.

Well this isn't quite what we want to know, what we want to know is something like how long will it last used within its useful capacity when returned to a full stoppered bottle between uses. For whatever reason, this publication doesn't give that information. Personally based on this information, I'm currently assuming a shelf life of 6 months; I replenish and return to full stoppered bottles between uses. The developer is out in a tray for an hour or so each time it's used. Based on experience already posted, I'm probably being more conservative here than I need to be.

As far as useful capacity, Publication J-1 gives 20 8 X 10 sheets per gallon without replenishment. For replenishment it says to add ¾ oz. of DK-25R per 80 square inches of film developed and to discard the developer after "about 100 rolls (8000 square inches) of film have been developed per gallon." Doing the arithmetic, ¾ fluid oz. = 22.1775 ml. I use 22 ml. And at the rate I do photography, I don't reach the 8000 square inch usage within the 6 months shelf life.

One thing I should do is compare fresh D-23 with D-23 nearing the end of its shelf/capacity life and see how close the Zone I and Zone VIII densities are for the two cases. Of course when I do this, I'll do it using the same lot of film and do the trials in triplicate. At least. Don't hold your breath waiting for these results.
David Lindquist

Bringing up an old thread, did ya ever test the replenished old developer with fresh mixed developed?

David Lindquist · Jun 14, 2021

cjbecker said:
Bringing up an old thread, did ya ever test the replenished old developer with fresh mixed developed?

No, I'm slightly embarrassed to say. At some point in the intervening 10-11 years I went to using XTOL. With the XTOL problems reported over the last year I've gone back to D-23 but my current batch hasn't reached its theoretical expiration date yet.

David

cjbecker · Jun 14, 2021

David Lindquist said:
No, I'm slightly embarrassed to say. At some point in the intervening 10-11 years I went to using XTOL. With the XTOL problems reported over the last year I've gone back to D-23 but my current batch hasn't reached its theoretical expiration date yet.

David

How have you noticed much of a difference using xtol vs d23?

David Lindquist · Jun 14, 2021

cjbecker said:
How have you noticed much of a difference using xtol vs d23?

The quantifiable difference I see is that XTOL gives me a bit more speed than does D-23. Using a Pentax digital spot meter and basing my e.i. on what gives a Zone I exposure yielding a negative density of 0.1 above film base plus fog, XTOL gives me an e.i. for T-Max 400 of 400 and D-23 an e.i. of 320. This is for 4 x 5 sheet film. My enlargements are modest, typically slightly more than 2X. There may be additional differences that would show up if I were doing 16 X 20 prints.

To be clear, I use XTOL diluted 1 + 1, D-23 is undiluted.

I've always liked what Ansel Adams said about choosing a film developer in The Negative, first edition, 1981: "It is wise in any case not to make too much of the issue of developer choice, since the effects of variations are perhaps not as vital as many suppose them to be."

David

Does d23 have expiration issues...

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