Does AGFA still have the machinery to produce photographic film?

TheGreatGasMaskMan · Sep 1, 2019

Color film is obviously not a common commodity these days, with most the fresh supply being made by Kodak, and then whatever Fuji is still making. Though I'm confident Ferrania will get there operations going, and for whatever reason, the FPP store has a svema color film for sale- I'm wondering about AGFA.
Ferrania's kickstarter mentioned AGFA as one of the last places on the planet color film can be made. I've read somewhere that AGFA still makes aerial film, and that crossbird 200 is that film rebranded. I also read here somewhere that Ilford bought AGFA but I have no idea if that's actually true. Either way, would anyone know if AGFA can still produce color and bw photographic films itself?

Anon Ymous · Sep 1, 2019

They could make colour film if they wanted and still make bw film.

foc · Sep 1, 2019

I am sure AgX will be able to tell you more about Agfa.

I have a link here that might be of interest, https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...as-finally-arrived.168866/page-3#post-2198375
It's post #55

AgX · Sep 1, 2019

Agfa is still one of the major film manufacturers world wide.
And much bigger than Kodak. What they share though with Kodak is the share value...

In contrast to Kodak they early skipped the consumer products and refrained to non-cosumer films, in addition using their business relations to proceede within same markets with digital technologies (which of course yields less revenue for their chemical plants).

A great share of their film production does not show up as related to them as it was changed into toll-production for two distributors.

Nonwithstanding a great part of products which were of interest to us have been cancelled the very last years, as all cine films, and all colour aerial films.

AgX · Sep 1, 2019

TheGreatGasMaskMan said:
I also read here somewhere that Ilford bought AGFA but I have no idea if that's actually true?

To give you some idea on scale: Agfa is about 70x bigger on employees than Ilford. A walk just around their major plant will take you about an hour..

mshchem · Sep 1, 2019

I miss Agfa. I used a lot of the last versions of their RC and fiber papers. Flawless. I used to get free slide film from our Bayer representative. Those were the days!

cmacd123 · Sep 1, 2019

Agfa had two locations that made film. the one is germany is long gone but several other firms got one of more items of equipment.

the other in Belgium, which generally made polyester base film (although I don't know if that is a hard and fast limitation) that business is part of AGFA Materials

they still seem to have some Graphic Art (printing shops) films here https://www.agfagraphics.com/global...ing/p_category/Films/p_productFamily/q_page/0

they also still offer Silver film for electronics manufacturing here https://www.agfa.com/specialty-products/solutions/industrial-imaging/idealine/

but they are unlikely to bring back any of the pictorial films that they used to make, which is a shame as I really liked their AFGA XT 125 and XT320 Motion Picture Negative.

Agulliver · Sep 10, 2019

As I understand it, Agfa still make B&W films for non-consumer use such as aviation film (Aviphot 200), medical imaging and engineering applications. They haven't made the colour aviation film for some years, possibly a decade, and the companies selling it as cine or camera film were using chilled/frozen stocks which have now run out.

Do Agfa still have the capability of making C41 or E6 film? It seems unlikely since they took the decision to cease manufacture some years ago.

I believe that the licensing deal with AgfaPhoto means that the Agfa-Gaevart company cannot sell films to consumers....though it's OK for third parties to repurpose Agfa-Gaevart films, eg Aviphot becoming Rollei Retro 400S.

Many Agfa comsumer products over the years were excellent. I liked their consumer and pro grade C41 films.

AgX · Sep 10, 2019

Agulliver said:
-) They haven't made the colour aviation film for some years, possibly a decade, and the companies selling it as cine or camera film were using chilled/frozen stocks which have now run out.

-) Do Agfa still have the capability of making C41 or E6 film? It seems unlikely since they took the decision to cease manufacture some years ago.

-) I believe that the licensing deal with AgfaPhoto means that the Agfa-Gaevart company cannot sell films to consumers....though it's OK for third parties to repurpose Agfa-Gaevart films, eg Aviphot becoming Rollei Retro 400S.

-) Agfa stated years ago to have built again a colour emulsion lab. Thus they were able to make colour films again without the consumer products plant in Leverkusen.
You overlook that the bulk of colour film produced in Mortsel was not aerial film but cine film.

-) Agfa never announced when they stopped manufacturing colour films resp. when they decided to do so.
The erection of a new colour emulsion lab proves that at least for some time there was interest in manufacturing colour films.
There is no hint that the ability to manufacture C-41 or E-6 films got lost.

-) There is no hint that Agfa made concessions not to produce consumer materials any longer when that AgfaPhoto entity was erected, that took over the whole consumer products departmemt with all its several plants.
However Agfa clearly stated that they do not want any longer to engage in the consumer market.
Their intent to sell that consumer department goes seemingly back to the year 2000. Agfa thus was the first to have called for a halt before it is too late.

In contrast to the cramped compound at Leverkusen at Mortsel there is much less reason to tear something down. (At Leverkusen all Agfa related poduction facilities were demolished and new plants for Bayer resp. its successors built.)

RalphLambrecht · Sep 10, 2019

mshchem said:
I miss Agfa. I used a lot of the last versions of their RC and fiber papers. Flawless. I used to get free slide film from our Bayer representative. Those were the days!

I'm a member of the Bayer/Agfa photo club and we buy alol our Agfa filo, paper and chemicals from Foto Impex in Berlin.

Henning Serger · Sep 11, 2019

TheGreatGasMaskMan said:
Color film is obviously not a common commodity these days, with most the fresh supply being made by Kodak, and then whatever Fuji is still making.

Wrong.
Colour photo film is made in much, much higher volumes than BW photographic film. BW is a niche compared to colour film.
Both Kodak and Fujifilm see significantly increasing demand for their colour films. Demand is so strong again that both have partly difficulties to keep up with demand (huge backorders in many markets).
The third current manufacturer of colour film is InovisCoat/Inovisproject.

TheGreatGasMaskMan said:
Though I'm confident Ferrania will get there operations going,

Film Ferrania is concentrating now completely on BW film. We will not see colour film from them in the short term. At best in the medium term.

TheGreatGasMaskMan said:
Ferrania's kickstarter mentioned AGFA as one of the last places on the planet color film can be made. I've read somewhere that AGFA still makes aerial film, and that crossbird 200 is that film rebranded.

Agfa is producing BW aerial film in their own plant in Mortsel. The former colour aerial films were made in the Agfa Leverkusen plant in Germany, and then cold stored in Mortsel. When the stock of these films depleted, the films were officially discontinued some years ago.
And yes, Crossbird, CR 200, Lomography XPro all were Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200.

TheGreatGasMaskMan said:
I also read here somewhere that Ilford bought AGFA but I have no idea if that's actually true.

No, they just bought some machinery from former Agfa Germany plants. The most important one: A 35mm converting line (I've seen it in operation at my Ilford Photo factory visit).

TheGreatGasMaskMan said:
Either way, would anyone know if AGFA can still produce color and bw photographic films itself?

They are producing huge amounts of different BW film types for industrial use: Xray film, aerial film, microfilm, PCB film.
But they don't produce colour film currently.

We as photographers will get our colour films in the future from
- Kodak
- Fujifilm
- InovisCoat
- maybe / hopefully Film Ferrania
- maybe Lucky (China) again (they have at least still the capability to do it).

Best regards,
Henning

cmacd123 · Sep 11, 2019

Henning Serger said:
Wrong.

Agfa is producing BW aerial film in their own plant in Mortsel. The former colour aerial films were made in the Agfa Leverkusen plant in Germany, and then cold stored in Mortsel. When the stock of these films depleted, the films were officially discontinued some years ago.

Henning

the Agfa Colour Motion Picture films did say "made in Belgium" on the package. were these also coated in germany?

the ECN2 camera negative was the first to go, then the ECP2 print film, and lastly the sound recording film (B&W)

Henning Serger · Sep 11, 2019

cmacd123 said:
the Agfa Colour Motion Picture films did say "made in Belgium" on the package. were these also coated in germany?

No, they were coated at the factory in Mortsel, Belgium (the "Made in Belgium" label was absolutely correct).

Best regards,
Henning

Arcadia4 · Dec 17, 2019

Also Wittner Chrome 200D states its Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200 originally intended for still images on the can in this link.(now sold out).
https://www.wittnercinetec.com/2200

AgX · Dec 18, 2019

Arcadia4 said:
Also Wittner Chrome 200D states its Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200 originally intended for still images on the can in this link.(now sold out).

Agfa had revived a very well-received E-6 consumer emulsion from the late 90s to coat on PET base for their aerial range.

guangong · Dec 18, 2019

Oh, how I miss Agfa films. I preferred the rendering of people in a scene by Agfachrome over Kodachrome. I really miss Agfa 25, my favorite and only choice for subminiature photography. I also used other Agfa BW films. Sadly, none of these films will ever be made again, only memories of a bygone time.
The more I learn about the complexity of film manufacture from following various APUG threads, I realize that making film is more than science and engineering, but also a complicated craft. After a certain duration of time the craft becomes lost and must be rediscovered again. What is gone is gone. There is little hope for a resuscitation.

cmacd123 · Dec 23, 2019

Not wanting to be gloomy, but I was looking for for the date of the A-G merger (1964) on the agfa.com website, and I noted that they are only producing Black and White Aerial film stock https://www.agfa.com/specialty-products/solutions/aerial-photography/ ( which explains where the Aviphot 200 E6 stock went.)

Anon Ymous · Dec 23, 2019

cmacd123 said:
Not wanting to be gloomy, but I was looking for for the date of the A-G merger (1964) on the agfa.com website, and I noted that they are only producing Black and White Aerial film stock https://www.agfa.com/specialty-products/solutions/aerial-photography/ ( which explains where the Aviphot 200 E6 stock went.)

This is rather old news at this point.

AgX · Dec 23, 2019

cmacd123 said:
Not wanting to be gloomy, but I was looking for for the date of the A-G merger (1964) on the agfa.com website, and I noted that they are only producing Black and White Aerial film stock https://www.agfa.com/specialty-products/solutions/aerial-photography/ ( which explains where the Aviphot 200 E6 stock went.)

In case you refer to all film production, you are mislead. Read post #4.

Concerning colour film, the markets for all their colour films collapsed (practically no more film based cinemas, practically no more film based aerial surveying).
If you look at the Kodak site, you will realize that Kodak reduced their aerial range even more drastically.

cmacd123 · Dec 23, 2019

AgX said:
Concerning colour film, the markets for all their colour films collapsed (practically no more film based cinemas, practically no more film based aerial surveying).
If you look at the Kodak site, you will realize that Kodak reduced their aerial range even more drastically.

it is just that the markets showing on their site, are basically ALL for Monochrome products. while I am sure that they could still whip up a batch of E6 or C41 film, they are not even looking for that market it would seem.

AgX · Dec 24, 2019

cmacd123 said:
While I am sure that they could still whip up a batch of E6 or C41 film, they are not even looking for that market it would seem.

Agfa decided in 2004 to leave the "consumer" market and they did not change their mind. The resting, "industrial" colour film market they saw vanishing, as did Fuji. Leaving Kodak to serve the tiny niches.

Wallendo · Dec 24, 2019

I don't doubt that AGFA has the equipment to make color film. But, do they have photo engineers with color film experience to do this?
Eastman Kodak took about a year and a half to bring back Ektachome, and they had been continuously producing consumer C-41 films the whole time, as well as movie film.

Agulliver · Dec 25, 2019

I don't think it is as easy as "whipping up" a batch of E6 or C41 film.

AgX · Dec 25, 2019

Wallendo said:
I don't doubt that AGFA has the equipment to make color film. But, do they have photo engineers with color film experience to do this?

Well, I repeatedly hinted at the age of all those respective people I know and of the majority of the people in the industry in general. And for saying so I got insulted by Adox, calling me a lier and worse.

Concerning Agfa, their colour film markets vanished, and I do not expect them of further investing in personnel on this sector.

TheGreatGasMaskMan · Jan 1, 2020

I don't know why I haven't shared this yet, but both the 120 and 35mm (I don't have any 110s right now) of lomochrome metropolis say made in Germany. This kind of has me intrigued...

Does AGFA still have the machinery to produce photographic film?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency