Do Powder chemicals go bad

Will powdered Kodak chemicals like Dektol, Fixer go bad if it sits around for a long time in the bags? I have an opportunity to get a case of each for next to nothing from a school, But they dont know how old it is. Worth a shot?

it depends HOW OLD.....
Fixer should not be a problem. D76 is a problem.

marco

All powder chemicals can go bad. The only way to tell is mix a batch and try it.

PE

At $10 for 2 cases I figure its worth trying at least. He doesnt know how old it all is.
Could be 2 years, could be 20 years for all i know.
Thanks guys!

Probably.

The fixer is less likely to deteriorate, but developers will, over time. I got some from my stepfather last year which was pretty obviously gone. As far as I know, he hadn't been in the darkroom since maybe the early 1970's and he was a serious hoarder. I suspect that the chemicals were from the early to mid 1950's if not older. He ceased to be really active in photography prior to his coming into my life, which was in 1958.

One clue is that if the bags aren't discolored, they are most likely ok. I think that sometimes they either have tiny holes, or develop them by being handled. Then, moisture and air will get in.

I'd go for it, if I happened to have a use for those chemicals.

Sure! Everything decays.

I have found that Dektol goes first -- even without the discoloring on the bag. There should be no dark specks in the powder.

Vaughn

ok, I've agreed to buy. He's even delivering it to my home. Also getting some containers and tongs.
HE has lots of stuff he wants to get rid of, here's the list.

http://providence.craigslist.org/pho/689149743.html

Vaughn said:

I have found that Dektol goes first -- even without the discoloring on the bag. There should be no dark specks in the powder.

Vaughn

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True, but Dektol is pretty robust stuff. Even when it looks bad, it still works. It takes a little longer to develop that full black and doesn't last as well in the tray, but it is useable. Moral - don't throw it out until you've tried it. What have you to lose except a couple of test strips and a few minutes of your time?

fschifano said:

True, but Dektol is pretty robust stuff. Even when it looks bad, it still works. It takes a little longer to develop that full black and doesn't last as well in the tray, but it is useable. Moral - don't throw it out until you've tried it. What have you to lose except a couple of test strips and a few minutes of your time?

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You are right, but you should have heard the complaints I got from our students when our Dektol was back ordered and they had to use some old Dektol we had around that was darker than they were use to!

Your advise is much more practical for individual darkroom rather than the large one we have at the university. And it probably would work better if one develops by inspection rather than to completion -- otherwise old developer would play havoc to one's attempt to standardize one's procedure.

Vaughn

I mixed up a bag of Dektol just the other day that I got for free just to see if still worked or not
No later than 1980. Powder was tan in color. Mixed up to shade of somewhat strong tea. Works. Seems to work just fine but really haven't made comparisons at dilutions.
For $10 it's probably well worth it.

Yeah, why not. There are several bags of fix, dektol AND D76.

Don't know about the bag chemicals but I mixed and used a couple cans of Microdol-x developer, that, as far as I could tell, looked to be from the 1960's, and they worked fine. I don't have a densiometer but development times didn't need to be changed at all, contrast looked like it should.

I currently use developer that was manufactured and sealed in metal cans in September 1969. I understand it is a D76 type mixture. It works great. So, certain chemistry can last for many decades, depending on how it is stored. When it's cheap enough, it's surely worth the try.

The biggest bummer about all this is that here is a school closing its darkroom. Future generations of students have lost the chance to try anolouge photography, it is this loss of oppertunity that greaves me.

Still there are none so blind as those that will not see, nor any so zelous as a convert.

By all means at $10 you have to try it, hopefuly someone will benefit, if only in the short term, in the long term I feel society will be the poorer for the schools actions.

Regards Paul.

PAul, I cant agree more.

Closing darkrooms?

Paul. said:

The biggest bummer about all this is that here is a school closing its darkroom.

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I agree. At my school (two year college) we've managed to retain our darkroom. The president is behind us; his wife used to teach photography in a high school, and they understand what's at issue.

However, I recall when the discussion about remodeling the art building was going on a few years back, the fellow in charge of facilities (non academic, but on the level of a dean) was heard to say "Why do we even need a darkroom? They make digital cameras, don't they?"

Enrollment in the program is lower than it was; it was full with waiting lists, but now it is just sufficient to be reasonably confident that the course will go. The students who sign up simply can't understand how anyone could even think of closing a darkroom. They understand it very well.

I wonder how many colleges that have closed their darkrooms still teach printmaking (intaglio, relief, lithography). I'm sure that there will be a lot of regrets later on. It seems strange how eager administrators are to make decisions without thinking it through. I can't even begin to describe what horrors I've seen over the years. It didn't start with digital. One of the colleges in our system trashed a wonderful program heavy in portraiture, to go with the "wave of the future". They bought a lot of mini lab equipment and hired the guy who sold them on it. He didn't tell them that all is going to be needed in most of that industry was one person who could handle the controls (who comes from RIT, no doubt) and a bunch of unskilled operators.

They miss the fact that analog teaches good laboratory techniques, chemistry and photography at the same time. This is indeed a bad situation when analog vanishes from the HS.

PE

It must have been five or six years ago that I discarded about half a pound of Kodak Elon (metol). It had turned a pale tan color. The last batch of D-23I made with it worked just fine but the Elon was decades old and came in the round container which was white translucent plastic with the yellow and red Kodak lid. The new batch of metol which I purchased from a chemical supply house was just about white in color but the D-23 I made with it did not work any better than the old stuff. Both were fine. Powder chemicals in cans can last a very long time if no air or moisture leaks in. Powder chamicals in paper or foil pouches do not last as long. Some people stocked up on Ilford powder chemicals when it looked like Ilford might dosappear. They bought vacuum sealers used for food, with the thick plastic freezer bags. This sealed packets went inside these bags. That should keep them fresh for some time.

Photo Engineer said:

They miss the fact that analog teaches good laboratory techniques, chemistry and photography at the same time. This is indeed a bad situation when analog vanishes from the HS.

PE

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And, digital is really easy if you learn it from this end first. Chemical photography is NOT easy if you learn digital first!

Hey, and you missed physics. Or am I the only one who teaches that? We get at philosophy, history and economics, too. The history of photography offers a really big lessons in economics. The same issues are with us today, especially in two year colleges where people come to learn new skills which are good for a few years until their jobs are exported, then they come back for another round. Great deal for the colleges and for industry. Student gets screwed. You know, automation. All those painters out of work! It has been going along for a long time.

I guess economics is the link to the topic. Chemicals go bad.

Might be a good time to split it off. I don't know how.

Photo Engineer said:

They miss the fact that analog teaches good
laboratory techniques, chemistry and photography
at the same time. This is indeed a bad situation when
analog vanishes from the HS. PE

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Photography was offered as part of the Physics
curriculum at the college I attended. Dan