Do old, proven technologies attract certain mindsets?

Steve Smith · Oct 31, 2014

Roger Cole said:
Americans drink beer too cold, and ice cold is too cold, granted. OTOH, room temperature beer is vile.

It depends on the beer. A good ale is perfect at room temperature.

Ice cold is for beers with bad taste as the cold takes away your ability to taste them.

Steve.

David Lyga · Oct 31, 2014

The GPS proclivity is one that I do not understand. I take public transport (never owned a car in my life, although have had a valid drivers license since 1966) but when I do have to drive somewhere, I NEED to know the whole layout in advance, in intricate detail. Some people literally do not have any conception as to how far someplace is. I have to almost imagine the entire route, and know it well, before I will venture forth. I find that this gives me the necessary perspective. To hear people sometimes tell me that they did not know, even remotely, what a distance was to a particular point utterly astounds me. - David Lyga

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 31, 2014

Steve Smith said:
It depends on the beer. A good ale is perfect at room temperature.

Ice cold is for beers with bad taste as the cold takes away your ability to taste them.

Steve.

I agree that it really depends on the beer and that 'ice cold' is a cover-up.

A stout is also nice at room temperature, even slightly warmed. Lager or pilsner I find better tasting when chilled.
It just struck me that the darker the beer, the more I like them at room temperature.

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 31, 2014

David Lyga said:
The GPS proclivity is one that I do not understand. I take public transport (never owned a car in my life, although have had a valid drivers license since 1966) but when I do have to drive somewhere, I NEED to know the whole layout in advance, in intricate detail. Some people literally do not have any conception as to how far someplace is. I have to almost imagine the entire route, and know it well, before I will venture forth. I find that this gives me the necessary perspective. To hear people sometimes tell me that they did not know, even remotely, what a distance was to a particular point utterly astounds me. - David Lyga

I think a lot of people estimate. When I go to the grocery store, I don't pay attention to exactly how much each item costs, but I always manage to get within a couple of dollars of what the total is going to be by just estimating. The same applies when I drive somewhere; I estimate how much time the journey will take, especially since that time is more valuable to me than knowing the distance. It could take me 15 minutes to go 15 miles if it's mostly highway driving, but if it was in the city on surface roads the same distance journey could be doubled or tripled in time, dependent on what time of day it is.

moose10101 · Oct 31, 2014

David Lyga said:
The GPS proclivity is one that I do not understand. I take public transport (never owned a car in my life, although have had a valid drivers license since 1966) but when I do have to drive somewhere, I NEED to know the whole layout in advance, in intricate detail. Some people literally do not have any conception as to how far someplace is. I have to almost imagine the entire route, and know it well, before I will venture forth. I find that this gives me the necessary perspective. To hear people sometimes tell me that they did not know, even remotely, what a distance was to a particular point utterly astounds me. - David Lyga

We look at the route in advance also, even printing out a map with directions, distance, and estimated driving time. The GPS function is still very useful for warning you when you're coming up on the next turn or off-ramp. But we don't blindly do everything it tells us to do. It's a tool, not our master.

Steve Roberts · Oct 31, 2014

No GPS here, but a huge range of Ordnance Survey maps on the shelves. US members may not have had experience of these (when I visited the US I could find nothing similar). Pretty much every nook and cranny of our little group of islands is mapped in extraordinary detail at scales of commonly 1 1/4" to the mile and 2 1/2" to the mile, but also 6" and 25" (sorry, I don't do metric!) The 2 1/2" (Outdoor Leisure) maps are wonderful, and poring over them before heading off somewhere will reveal features such as "railway line disused", "bronze age burial mound", "cave", "ruins of church", and so on.

As for music, I haven't yet had a CD player in a car, still on compact cassettes, which serve me very well. Reliability issues of 30+ years ago seem to have been sorted with better tapes and better players. I'd never get rid of my vast collection of mainly big band/jazz LPs, though I do buy CDs when new material is issued (and record it on cassette for the car!) Only just ditched the CRT TV set when it died. Its LED replacement is nowhere near as good, thanks largely to the crude digital TV signals that have been wished on us in place of our previous excellent wideband fm signal.

No iPhone/Smart phone, not even a camera on the crappy old mobile phone I use (occasionally). No Kindle, no laptop computer, no X-box (why would anyone want one?). Reluctantly, I have a car with electronic ignition, though I don't trust the stuff and also have a car with points and a condenser so that I can adjust the gap when I feel the urge.

Yet I work in the field of technology..... I think I've become cynical over the years and now regard many technological 'advances' as being change for change's sake. I refuse to buy in to the concept of technology with built-in obsolescence. I also like to use technologies and equipment which I can a) understand and b) fix myself.

So instead of spending my money on technology and 'automation' such as a dishwasher, I've built up a fine collection of tools and equipment with which to make and mend things (including cameras, of course), and a neat lathe. I also have a library of books that gives me a lot of pleasure, though I'll be dead before I've read them all!

Best wishes,

Steve

NJH · Oct 31, 2014

Lager chilled from the fridge, ice cold is an exaggeration probably would have been in high single digit celsius if I measured it but that would be even more sad than making a big point about a throwaway turn of phrase made on a forum completely unrelated to the point of discussion.

winger · Oct 31, 2014

Steve Roberts said:
No GPS here, but a huge range of Ordnance Survey maps on the shelves. US members may not have had experience of these (when I visited the US I could find nothing similar). Pretty much every nook and cranny of our little group of islands is mapped in extraordinary detail at scales of commonly 1 1/4" to the mile and 2 1/2" to the mile, but also 6" and 25" (sorry, I don't do metric!) The 2 1/2" (Outdoor Leisure) maps are wonderful, and poring over them before heading off somewhere will reveal features such as "railway line disused", "bronze age burial mound", "cave", "ruins of church", and so on.

..
Steve

Those maps are the BEST! I took a vacation in the UK with someone whose dad had a big book of them. They were way better than any GPS because we could just pick a spot and find it. Like out on the tip of somewhere in Wales, there was a notation "standing stones" and we found them. With a GPS, we would have gotten where we intended to go, but we never would have found all the interesting places along the way. But we were on vacation and didn't have a schedule either. I also have to say the roundabouts were great - keep going around until you pick one.

I prefer maps, but I'll admit my dad had a quote about me that was true when I was younger - "You couldn't find your way out of a paper bag with both ends cut off." That was mostly because I didn't need to know where I was if someone else was driving. Once I was on my own and working at the crime lab, I really had to learn how to navigate quickly because I had to respond to crime scenes wherever I got called to. I always warned newbies that the toughest part of going to crime scenes was getting there without getting lost. I did get some big books of detailed maps of MA - street map books with all the little streets, etc.. and the police station was always marked, too. I haven't seen good ones in other states, though.

- Roger Cole
I think for me the bottom line is that I often prefer the older and "more personally involved" process when I'm doing something for my own enjoyment. When I just want to get a job done that I have no emotional connection to, like washing dishes or getting to a certain address, I'm happy to use whatever tech is available that will help with that.

Yes, I think this is it for me, too.

MattKing · Oct 31, 2014

I like GPS for one particular thing.

When you are in an unfamiliar location, and unsure of where you are exactly, and you don't recognize any of the street names, it will show you on a map where you are.

In places like Seattle, that is very handy.

Otherwise, printed maps for me.

jerrybro · Oct 31, 2014

Thomas Bertilsson said:
...Embrace what fits your life, and get on with living it.

Well said.

David Lyga · Oct 31, 2014

Yes, the bottom line is to mesh with whatever you deem best to become acclimated to. Thomas Bertilsson is correct here (i.e., "get on with living it").

This thread was not intended to advise all that I am more correct than the doubters. Indeed, the latest technology has made my life so much easier. How else could I have posted photos relevant and complementary to text? Indeed, how could we all enjoy apug if that technological embrace were not manifested? But, I do think that I made a point (which most here already know) in that perhaps this thread was a sort of 'reminder' that, oftentimes, there really are relevant reasons for not being myopic about decisions concerning ways of interacting with what is available to us and how we might choose to utilize that synergism to our best overall advantage. - David Lyga

cliveh · Oct 31, 2014

Technological advancement is great if it can provide a better way and in some cases it can. However most technological advancement is high jacked by marketers who try to persuade us that this new thing is better and quite often it isn’t. Sometimes technological advancement can reach a peak (the M2) and then it goes downhill. To quote Neil Young – “He brought out something for the trip and said it's old but it's good like any other primitive would.”

David Lyga · Oct 31, 2014

And, cliveh, in some ways the 'peak' was also the Nikon F2, the most masterful clock-spring SLR ever made. - David Lyga

Roger Cole · Oct 31, 2014

David Lyga said:
The GPS proclivity is one that I do not understand. I take public transport (never owned a car in my life, although have had a valid drivers license since 1966) but when I do have to drive somewhere, I NEED to know the whole layout in advance, in intricate detail. Some people literally do not have any conception as to how far someplace is. I have to almost imagine the entire route, and know it well, before I will venture forth. I find that this gives me the necessary perspective. To hear people sometimes tell me that they did not know, even remotely, what a distance was to a particular point utterly astounds me. - David Lyga

I have never lived anywhere that owning and driving a car was not a virtual necessity. My neighborhood, for example, does not even have sidewalks, though walking along the streets is safe enough. But you can't get to ANY business place, not one single one, without walking on roads, not streets, with no sidewalks and fairly high speed, high volume traffic. I've done it, and it's not so bad in day time, but there are about three restaurants, two convenience stores, a thrift store and a laundromat (and, perhaps ironically, a car wash) that you can reach that way in less than 1.5 miles. Anything else is going to be 2.5+ miles and more traffic. Each way, of course. There is NO public transportation here (not "here" as in my house though there is some limited buss service in the county.) And even if you wanted to spend the money on a cab to go everywhere, cabs are rare enough you could be waiting 1-2 hours for one (I have, once, tried to call one when I misplaced my driver's license and had to go get it replaced.)

Before here I lived in a very rural area where, again, NO public transportation, and something close by (in town) was 7-10 miles away by state highway. More developed stuff was in the next, larger city over, 20 miles away.

A lot of this is just different environment and experience.

I do generally have a good concept of distance and, in areas I live and drive fairly often, associated drive time, but I absolutely would never go back to not having GPS.

Steve Smith · Nov 1, 2014

Roger Cole said:
Before here I lived in a very rural area where, again, NO public transportation, and something close by (in town) was 7-10 miles away by state highway. More developed stuff was in the next, larger city over, 20 miles away.

It is strange how our perception of acceptable walking distance has changed over the years.

A while ago on TV, there was a programme which showed a map of market towns in the UK. These were towns which held a market in the town square one day a week and it was common for housewives to go to their nearest market every week to stock up.

Most of these towns are about 12 to 14 miles apart which means that wherever you lived, there was likely to be a market at most, about 7 miles away.

This was before motorways, good road surfaces or even cars, so then the choice was either to walk or take a horse. Walking was the normal method and walking up to 7 miles each way was a lot more accetable then than it is to people now!

Steve.

David Lyga · Nov 1, 2014

I have amazed even myself with the distance that I can walk and think nothing of it. An extreme case might be at the end of September 2013. My father died in August 2013.

He lived two miles from the closest Waterbury (CT) city bus and I routinely walked that distance to get to him for visits (although he was furious at that decision and tried to 'guess' in order to pick me up). After his death, I had to sell all his stuff from his apartment in Wolcott, CT. Of course, I also had access to his Suburu during my stay there. But, when all was over and I had to go back to Philadelphia, I had to leave the Suburu in his lawyer's parking lot because they had to sell it for probate. I had a choice to make: either call a Waterbury cab or, since it was so early in the morning on a weekend (before the buses started running), actually walk to the Metro North RR Station in Waterbury.

The problem was this: my mobile phone was down. And to make matters worse, I had called AT&T to disconnect my father's landline. I had no phone. What I did will shock some out there but I am here to tell it. At 4:45 AM on a Saturday morning, I took all my luggage into the Suburu, drove to the lawyer's parking lot (which was on the way to Waterbury) then proceeded to take my luggage (about 50 pounds) and begin the trek to Metro North Station in Waterbury. Distance: exactly four miles. The walk, the SLOW walk, took two full hours. I had assumed this by past experience with walking and I made my 7:15 AM train to Grand Central Terminal, (where I then connected to Penn Station for the trip back to Philadelphia).

Bottom line: HONESTLY FOLKS, I thought nothing of it, but, generally, people are flabbergasted that a 64 year old man would do this with 'reckless abandon'. And I would do this again, if necessary. It is something that I am fully used to and do not consider the task onerous. (Ask me to get on the back of a motorcycle and I will call you nuts.)

The more one gets used to convenience the more one gets addicted to it. The real meaning of "progress" is subject to debate. - David Lyga

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 1, 2014

Walking is nice, David. It's meditative and it keeps you in good health. To me it's a good time to process information, to do something repetitive.

I often strap on my boots, sling a camera over my shoulder and just go walking around with it. When I get back hours later I have no clue how far I walked. It's nice not to measure everything. It's nice just to exist sometimes, to simply observe the world around us, and let it pass before our eyes.

Europan · Nov 1, 2014

Do old, proven technologies attract certain mindsets?

In my case yes. I want to be part of it. Scraping for example. As a mechanic one is rather an operator or a machinist nowadays but some manual work will never disappear from the trade. I grab a file, I grind something with a stone. Flat surfaces can be made by scraping, a process of its own kind.

Developing as another example. I processed my first film when I was 17. After long years I can say today that I know what it takes for good and consistent development results. I had to make my hands dirty, had to get the feel for it, quite a bodily thing. The mind also begins to wander, Randy Newman sang it so wonderfullybaby, youre falling in love.

frank · Nov 1, 2014

I prefer mechanical cameras and old motorcycles.
I develop and wet print B&W, and wrench myself.
They are both about process and the journey, just like life.

But an iPhone and ipad make it easy to connect and share with others, like this forum. The connecting and sharing is also important/enriching.

Truzi · Nov 1, 2014

I work in IT, and everyone has a plethora of gadgets and devices. Many (not all) of these coworkers get a bit self-righteous and condescending when they see people not using the latest tech for something. It's not a live-and-let-live sort of thing. They don't realize they are coming off as insulting; it's more like they need to validate their own choices by invalidating choices others. Their rationale is often just echoing marketing materials verbatim, with no additional data from their own personal experience.
They force themselves to use the latest tech; even when it frustrates them, takes more time, and makes them less efficient.

There is precisely one coworker who actually makes extremely good use of all the latest tech in a logical and efficient manner. He fully integrates it - well-done and not gratuitously. Coincidentally, unlike the rest, this one person who actually knows how to use the latest tech fully, efficiently, and realistically, has absolutely no value judgments on people who do not do the same. He feels old and new methods are equally valid, that people have valid reasons for using "old" methods, and that there is nothing wrong with that. Go figure.

He is also a professional photographer. He has gone digital because that makes the most sense for what he does professionally, but he does not disparage film in any way.

David Lyga · Nov 1, 2014

I find Outlook for office scheduling to be a burden. Give me Excel and I'll create my own appointment calendar.

Sometimes a pencil and paper are not exactly obscene tools. -David Lyga

Roger Cole · Nov 1, 2014

Spreadsheets or pencil and paper are fine for one person. But when you need to coordinate meetings and conference calls and such with groups of people some kind of networked collaborative tool is far better. Though I agree Outlook is often overkill it's what's most used.

Sent from my iPhone via Tapatalk using 100% recycled electrons. Because I care.

Steve Roberts · Nov 5, 2014

MattKing said:
I like GPS for one particular thing.
When you are in an unfamiliar location, and unsure of where you are exactly, and you don't recognize any of the street names, it will show you on a map where you are..

Alternatively, the UK is small enough that after nearly 40 years of driving I probably know the way to most places I'm likely to want to go to!

Steve

removed account4 · Nov 5, 2014

romans used silver to keep their food from spoiling,
and people for a long time used and drank colloidal
silver for health reasons ... its a proven technology ...
but i don't think i will consume any colloidal silver anytime soon.

E. von Hoegh · Nov 5, 2014

My wristwatch has springs and gears, I wind it every morning. I'm carrying a Nikon F2A today, half of my electronics still have vacuum tubes, etc. etc.
And I can repair & maintain it all.
Maybe not special, but certainly unusual.

Do old, proven technologies attract certain mindsets?

Steve Smith

David Lyga

Thomas Bertilsson

Thomas Bertilsson

moose10101

Steve Roberts

NJH

winger

MattKing

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jerrybro

David Lyga

cliveh

David Lyga

Roger Cole

Steve Smith

David Lyga

Thomas Bertilsson

Europan

frank

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Do old, proven technologies attract certain mindsets?

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