Do I need a shutter for 8x10?

gbenaim · Aug 4, 2007

Hi all,

In my continuing quest for an 8x10 contact printing setup, I'm now debating whether to get a shutter. I already have a couple of barrel lenses, and was wondering if I should get a packard, or at least one lens w shutter. If a packard, which ones have the instantaneous setting? What size would I need for a calumet c-1 w 6in boards ? I figure if I'm shooting 100asa film at f64, that leaves me at about 1/2 in full sun if I expose at 50asa right? So othere than for freezing motion, do any of you 8x10 shooters ever really need anything faster than 1/2 sec? Thanks,

GB

Pinholemaster · Aug 4, 2007

Yes, all the time. Stopping down to the minimum aperture doesn't always result in the sharpest image. Yes, it gives the maximum depth-of-field, but the sharpest part of the lens is usually the middle range of the aperture scale. So I'm usually shooting from a 1/4 sec to a 1/30. If I'm doing portrait work on 400 ISO film, I can shoot at a 125 to 250 of a sec.

But that said, what is a shutter. A shutter is no more than a hat over a barrel lens, or a wooden flap on the pinhole camera.

Your shooting style is your own. You may not need a shutter just because others use them. Don't get something 'cause others are using it. Get a shutter if it helps you achieve your personal vision.

David A. Goldfarb · Aug 4, 2007

I've used lenscaps, boxes, and such, but most of the time I use a shutter.

Ole · Aug 4, 2007

I use a shutter if the lens has one. If not I use a hat, a hand, a lenscap or whatever.

I often use fairly large apertures, so stopping down to f:64 is not always what I want.

doughowk · Aug 4, 2007

I have 3 barrel lenses. One came with a Packard Shutter that still functions. The 2nd I added a new shutter from Packard Shutter Comapny. The third I'm using a lens-sock, but plan to eventually get another Packard shutter. They are mechanically simple & easy to use (& Reno is very helpful).

Roger Hicks · Aug 4, 2007

Consider a Thornton-Pickard roller blind shutter, front mounted. I have a couple of big ones and find them very useful, but the longest speed before you go to 'B' is 1/10 second.

PHOTOTONE · Aug 4, 2007

I prefer shutters for 8x10 and 11x14 with modern film materials, so I can shoot outside in the "sweet spot" of the lens.

epatsellis · Aug 4, 2007

What I did for my C1 was fabricate a lens board out of 3/8" plywood, then make it into a 4x4 adapter, and mount a packard behind it, adding flash sync. Not terribly pretty, but works well. The advantage is that I can use any lens I have mounted on a 4x4 lensboard, my 4x5 camera (toyo 45F) has a 4x4 adapter as well (just need to find another packard for it.) and if I mount a lenst that has a shutter, I simply open the packard and use it as an adapter. By permanently pinning the shutter, with a small finishing nail, you can get either instantaeous by squeezing hard, or B/T by squeezing slowly (thanks to Ron Tuttle for that tip!!)

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Shawn Dougherty · Aug 4, 2007

No, you do not NEED a shutter. Having a shutter is certainly convenient and makes some pictures possible but there is plenty of work to be done without them.

Right now I am using Nikkor APO barrel lenses on my 8x10/4x10 setup and they work just fine with a lens cap shutter, assuming you're careful and have a good tripod. My plan is to accumulate the 4 Nikkor APO process lenses I want, then add a Sinar shutter to my camera.

As far as stopping down past the lenses "hot spot"... If you want everything in the frame in focus sometimes you must do that as the issues can't be resolved with movements. I believe it was Alan Ross that said, I'd rather deal with diffraction than have something out of focus...

Remember, you're making 8x10 contact prints. I challenge you take make a photograph of a 2D object at both the "hot spot" and at f64, make prints and then try to tell them apart. If you are ENLARGING negatives it's a different story.

All the best. Shawn

Dan Fromm · Aug 4, 2007

GB, whether you need a shutter depends on how fast an exposure you want to make. "Yes" and "no" are equally stupid answers to the question. Many people claim to be able to get good exposure with hats and the like for shutter speeds slower than 1/2 second. Very few make the same claim for 1/125.

Since you have camera, lens, and film, why don't you take few "typical" shots to find out what you can accomplish without a shutter?

jimgalli · Aug 5, 2007

Over 90% of my shooting these days is with a Packard shutter mounted inside of my camera. One Packard, many lensboards / lenses. Enter large aperture antique portrait lenses. Suddenly f64 won't do. I want to shoot at f4 for full effect of the antique lenses and the Packard can only do about 1/25th sec. Typically I'll go ahead and shoot anyway even over-exposing up to 3+ stops. The Pyrocat HD seems to save my bacon. I pull those films at roughly N-2 development and always seem to get easily printable negs although I'll admit some aren't premium for Platinum printing.

Packard #5 is open / close with no instantaneous setting. Avoid.

Packard #6 has the pin that allows instantaneous setting.

Packard #8 has 2 pistons, 2 hoses and bulbs. One for instant, and one for bulb or T. I don't like these as well as the #6 above.

A 5 3/4" #6 would fit your lens boards. I don't know how your camera lends itself to having a larger packard inside the camera

Tom Hoskinson · Aug 5, 2007

Barrel mount lenses and a Sock Shutter

gbenaim said:
Hi all,

In my continuing quest for an 8x10 contact printing setup, I'm now debating whether to get a shutter. I already have a couple of barrel lenses, and was wondering if I should get a packard, or at least one lens w shutter. If a packard, which ones have the instantaneous setting? What size would I need for a calumet c-1 w 6in boards ? I figure if I'm shooting 100asa film at f64, that leaves me at about 1/2 in full sun if I expose at 50asa right? So othere than for freezing motion, do any of you 8x10 shooters ever really need anything faster than 1/2 sec? Thanks,

GB

Yes, I do some of the time, but I shoot more often with long exposures at small apertures. I often use barrel mount lenses and a sock shutter.

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gbenaim · Aug 5, 2007

Thanks, Jim

That's what I was looking for. Are the 5 and 6 different sizes? How can you tel what type a packard is on ebay if the seller doesn't know? Do you by chance have a retaining ring for a 19" artar or a 6.5" dagor?

Tom, I remeber seeing your posts when you first posted them and thinking about how simple that looked, and nopw I'm getting ready to use it! I'm actually thinking of using the Galli shutter.

I thiunk some people may have misunderstood my drift. I know what you can and can't do without a shutter, I was wondering if for the kinds of shots I'm planning on doing, and in heneral practice, whether fast shutter speeds are ever really used for 8x10.

Roger Hicks · Aug 5, 2007

gbenaim said:
. . . in general practice, whether fast shutter speeds are ever really used for 8x10.

Don't know about you, but I've almost always used a shutter, though seldom 'fast' -- rarely less than 1/60, often 1 to 1/25. Is that 'general practice?' Dunno - but then, I first started using 8x10 in the studio anyway...

Nick Zentena · Aug 5, 2007

You can also stick a filter on that lens to lengthen the times even more. The fact nobody seems to complain about the 1/125 top speed on a #3 shutter would make you think most are fine with slower shutter speeds.

OTOH you won't always want to use slow film. Or small apertures.

The Packards are/were made in various sizes. You need one that isn't too big for your camera but has a big enough lens opening for your biggest lens.

Roger Hicks · Aug 5, 2007

Nick Zentena said:
The Packards are/were made in various sizes. You need one that isn't too big for your camera but has a big enough lens opening for your biggest lens.

Alas, my biggest lens (21 inch Ross) is too big for my camera. Well, for the Gandolfi Universal, anyway, though I did bodge it onto the De Vere monorail for portraiture. The 1/10 second of the TP roller-blind is JUST long enough for portraits with a couple of big hot lights at full aperture (f/7.7), but 1/5 or even 1/2 would be nicer.

jimgalli · Aug 5, 2007

gbenaim said:
Thanks, Jim

That's what I was looking for. Are the 5 and 6 different sizes? How can you tel what type a packard is on ebay if the seller doesn't know? Do you by chance have a retaining ring for a 19" artar or a 6.5" dagor?

Tom, I remeber seeing your posts when you first posted them and thinking about how simple that looked, and nopw I'm getting ready to use it! I'm actually thinking of using the Galli shutter.

I thiunk some people may have misunderstood my drift. I know what you can and can't do without a shutter, I was wondering if for the kinds of shots I'm planning on doing, and in heneral practice, whether fast shutter speeds are ever really used for 8x10.

#5 #6 #8 only describe the different ways they fire. Each of the series comes in many sizes. Sometimes you can tell by the picture on ebay which is which. #8 is easy because it has 2 pistons. #6 will have the little spot where a pin slides in but that can be hard to detect in a photo. Also, many of the #6 had factory flash sync which is really nice and works perfectly with modern flash equipment. Does anyone know which issue of View Camera had the great article about them?

Shawn Dougherty · Aug 5, 2007

Dan Fromm said:
"Yes" and "no" are equally stupid answers to the question.

Well, I certainly take offense to that remark. No is not a stupid answer, thank you. The original question was "Do I need a shutter for 8x10?" No, you do not NEED a shutter for 8x10. Excellent photographs can be made without one.

Obviously some pictures are not possible without a shutter, but again, that wasn't the question. This a usually a rather friendly forum, not sure why you would make such statement, Dan.

Shawn

Edit: Dan PM'd me, he obviously meant no offense. Sorry to call you out, Dan. Best. Shawn

alexphoto · Aug 6, 2007

epatsellis said:
What I did for my C1 was fabricate a lens board out of 3/8" plywood, then make it into a 4x4 adapter, and mount a packard behind it, adding flash sync. Not terribly pretty, but works well. The advantage is that I can use any lens I have mounted on a 4x4 lensboard, my 4x5 camera (toyo 45F) has a 4x4 adapter as well (just need to find another packard for it.) and if I mount a lenst that has a shutter, I simply open the packard and use it as an adapter. By permanently pinning the shutter, with a small finishing nail, you can get either instantaeous by squeezing hard, or B/T by squeezing slowly (thanks to Ron Tuttle for that tip!!)

Hi I have a Dallmeyer shutter that looks very similar to a Packard, it has no pin as far as I can see so I am interested on where to fit one. The cylinder needs lubricating any suggestions?
thanks Alex

Vaughn · Aug 6, 2007

Under the Redwoods, a shutter is just extra weight I don't need to carry around. In Yosemite Valley, I wish more of my lenses had shutters.

Vaughn

jimgalli · Aug 6, 2007

alexphoto said:
The cylinder needs lubricating any suggestions?
thanks Alex

Never never never Clean the piston and the cyl and if you like put a bit of wax on and then buff it right off again. It should be dry and slippery.

Do I need a shutter for 8x10?

gbenaim

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Do I need a shutter for 8x10?

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