You know why I am asking this: I am looking at a legendary formula like Harvey's 777 and trying to understand how to reproduce its "ripening" without the associated voodoo (no offense intended). Isn't it actually a metol-glycin developer, in itself quite contrasty, with two silver halide solvent(s) added? If so, there could be another magical solution without the PPD.
Interesting how you can do this as the formula for Harvey's Pamthermic has never bee revealed.
DK-50 diluted 1+4 with the metaborate concentration raised bach to its original concentrations is an acutence developer. It will not produce negatives similar to the Harvey formula.
That is all true, but it is not all. D-76, especially replenished, becomes laden with silver, some of which is in solution, and that should contribute to its properties. It was also mentioned that some added a little of spent developer to the new batch, which is equivalent to ripening.Developers containing Hydroquinone may end up having a Hydroquinone Monosulfonate salt after use. This is produced by the reaction of quinone (a Hydroquinone oxidation product) with sulfite and is a developing agent, much less active than Hydroquinone. The release of halides (bromide, iodide) during development can also alter developer characteristics if the original formula doesn't have any in it, like D76.
https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/ripened-developers.96737/
Possibly bromide build-up may inhibit the development reaction AgBr + e -> Ag + Br-
You have said you are not particularly interested in using the DK-50 but to raise a point, if you were aiming at pH9 it might be better to use borax instead of metaborate. To dilute metaborate to give a pH of that range one would risk losing buffer capability.
One theory is that metol is adsorbed on the grain surface and two reactions occur to provide electrons to Ag Br, one involves the oxidation of metol and in the other the adsobed metol just passes electrons from hydroquinone.If this is so, the relative rates of these reactions would determine the amounts of metol and hydroquinone in the replenisher.
Labs used D76 in a replenishment regime - for each 8x10 (or equivalent) a certain amount of old developer was removed, and a certain amount of new developer replenisher was added. The developer replenisher was similar to the basic D-76, but not identical.How come the one shot user has to bin D76 while the D76 in the film lab keeps on trucking?
In ripening it appears that bromide build-up is involved always, Is it the case that with some developers redeposition of silver occurs? Anything else in ripening?The suggestion of the metallic silver complex present, is, however, entirely left out. In a developer containing PPD or OPD the situation is different as during development a substantial amount of silver goes into solution during ripening, in addition to bromide accumulation. In my experience, PPD derivatives are very sensitive to bromide, so adding it by way of ripening is conceivably a finer tuned process. A facility like Bluegrass has a capability to mix the developer, pre-ripen it (load with some silver) and then pulverise for sale. I am not saying they do it, but it is one thing a normal person would not be able to do, hence "close but no cigar".
In ripening it appears that bromide build-up is involved always, Is it the case that with some developers redeposition of silver occurs? Anything else in ripening?
Labs used D76 in a replenishment regime - for each 8x10 (or equivalent) a certain amount of old developer was removed, and a certain amount of new developer replenisher was added. The developer replenisher was similar to the basic D-76, but not identical.
D-76 replenisher is no longer made by Kodak, but modern developers like X-Tol and T-Max RS are designed for self-replenishing - the developer itself serves as its own replenisher.
I think redeposition of silver definitely occurs in solvent developers, but I am not sure if it does in a general case. Today at trying a new "acutance" recipe I saw for the first time the developer turning vivid green after use. This was essentially Rudolf Jarai formula I put in the resource, but metol substituted for by glycin and a little phenidone. One of the possibilities for this odd color is colloidal silver.In ripening it appears that bromide build-up is involved always, Is it the case that with some developers redeposition of silver occurs? Anything else in ripening?
Developers containing Hydroquinone may end up having a Hydroquinone Monosulfonate salt after use. This is produced by the reaction of quinone (a Hydroquinone oxidation product) with sulfite and is a developing agent, much less active than Hydroquinone. The release of halides (bromide, iodide) during development can also alter developer characteristics if the original formula doesn't have any in it, like D76.
I honestly have no idea why they do so. Didn't even know a developer that used Hydroquinone Monosulfonate except from E6 FD. To be honest, I don't see much to be gained by trying to simulate ripening. There are many nice developers out there that give fine results as is. Many replenishable developers too and this ripening can be achieved fairly easily.Some relatively modern developers, such as Rollei Supergrain made by SPUR, contain both hydroquinone and hydroquinone monosulfonate. Would you say this is done to simulate ripening?
No, it's not a typo. Adox MQ Borax replenisher uses a large amount of borax too, but don't remember the exact figure.In my book, Jacobsons "Developing" 18th edition, p. 206 there are both D-76 and replenisher formulas, with the replenisher having 10X the amount of borax as the developer. Is this a typo?
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What film were you using for this test?I think redeposition of silver definitely occurs in solvent developers, but I am not sure if it does in a general case. Today at trying a new "acutance" recipe I saw for the first time the developer turning vivid green after use. This was essentially Rudolf Jarai formula I put in the resource, but metol substituted for by glycin and a little phenidone. One of the possibilities for this odd color is colloidal silver.
I don't know the function of HQMS .It might ,being a final oxidation product, just slow the conversion rate of AgBr to Ag.Others may know more .IIRC PE has mentioned that Kodak wore working on a sucessor to Xtol containing thiocyanate..This might be unlocking some secrets of developers post Xtol.Some relatively modern developers, such as Rollei Supergrain made by SPUR, contain both hydroquinone and hydroquinone monosulfonate. Would you say this is done to simulate ripening?
Labs used D76 in a replenishment regime - for each 8x10 (or equivalent) a certain amount of old developer was removed, and a certain amount of new developer replenisher was added. The developer replenisher was similar to the basic D-76, but not identical.
D-76 replenisher is no longer made by Kodak, but modern developers like X-Tol and T-Max RS are designed for self-replenishing - the developer itself serves as its own replenisher.
I get the replinishment idea but the original D76 is still collecting oxygen. After x number of prints, the soup is 80% D76 and 20% replenisher but the D76 that has been getting oxydised still works. At some point the original D76 will be down to 20% or less but the results will be as consistent as when it was 80% D76 or labs would have used something else.
For the replenisher to 'correct' the oxydisation of the original D76, it sounds like there has to be a regular workflow. Or maybe a minimum workflow? What happens when the lab is closed for a holiday period, can the soup sit there doing nothing but getting oxydised and be fine when the lab starts up again?
The problem with your analysis is that you are differentiating too much between the "original" D76 and D76 plus replenisher.
In a properly running system, the working D76 solution reaches an equilibrium quickly, and the effect of both developing film and adding replenisher maintains that equilibrium. If properly maintained, a tank of fresh D76 that has been seasoned (by either adding starter or running a few rolls of film through it) should be in essentially the same condition and have the same constituent ingredients as a tank that has had hundreds of rolls run through it and been kept in equilibrium through replenishment.
And while oxydisation is one issue that needs to be dealt with through prevention and replenishment, it certainly isn't the only or even main one. In the past if a lab hadn't been using the D76 for a period, any necessary adjustments would be dealt with through the normal workflow of running a control strip through the D76 and then adjusting the "soup" in response to the control strip numbers.
Small volume users can accomplish something similar through short test rolls.
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