DIY negative carriers/masks?

Horatio · Jun 28, 2020

I just got a decent Vivitar VI Dicro enlarger as part of a lot of darkroom gear. It's functional but there were no negative carriers. I'm thinking about cardboard or mat board masks as a temporary solution. Any recommendations? It will be some time before I have a working darkroom, so I'm in no hurry. I also got a very good condition Beseler 23C unit, with two lenses and neg carriers, as part of the package.

Donald Qualls · Jun 28, 2020

Mat board has been used for custom sized or improvised negative carriers approximately forever. A layer of packing tape, carefully applied to be wrinkle free, will help avoid negative scratching. Strips of straight tape can act as rails to guide the negative strip, to ease getting the actual image area aligned with the mask opening.

Another option is glass -- Anti Newton Ring (or the anti-glare glass from a better picture frame, much cheaper but less durable than acid-etched ANR) is preferred for the upper side, which contacts the film base, and strips of tape can serve as both negative guides (between the glass layers) and frame mask (bottom side of the lower glass, so it doesn't interfere with negative positioning. Once again, this is great for sizes that are hard to find -- 6.5x9 sheet film, for instance -- or oddball film sizes, or those with offset frames (828, 126, 110, Minolta 16, etc.)

Horatio · Jun 28, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
Mat board has been used for custom sized or improvised negative carriers approximately forever. A layer of packing tape, carefully applied to be wrinkle free, will help avoid negative scratching. Strips of straight tape can act as rails to guide the negative strip, to ease getting the actual image area aligned with the mask opening.

Another option is glass -- Anti Newton Ring (or the anti-glare glass from a better picture frame, much cheaper but less durable than acid-etched ANR) is preferred for the upper side, which contacts the film base, and strips of tape can serve as both negative guides (between the glass layers) and frame mask (bottom side of the lower glass, so it doesn't interfere with negative positioning. Once again, this is great for sizes that are hard to find -- 6.5x9 sheet film, for instance -- or oddball film sizes, or those with offset frames (828, 126, 110, Minolta 16, etc.)

Thanks, Donald. I hadn't thought about photo frame glass (or glass at all for that matter), but that's a good idea. I'll actually want to print 6x9 negs one of these days, from a Horseman film back for my 4x5 cameras (the only shipment I've received from Japan during the pandemic). The enlarger's condenser was included, thankfully.

Donald Qualls · Jun 28, 2020

The glass has the advantage of keeping the film flatter (especially for large roll film negatives) than an open carrier. The disadvantages are that you have Newton Rings to worry about (in glass carriers made "back in the day"), and four additional surfaces to clean dust off of every time you change the negative. Glass can also be used to print a wet negative, if you're really, really in a hurry (this used to be a semi-standard practice in newspaper darkrooms, where making today's evening edition was, over time, what made a major paper, as opposed to an ordinary one).

R.Gould · Jun 28, 2020

I've made negative carriers in the past from mount board for 67,66,645 and 35mm which worked well for some old enlargers that I picked at car boot sales, the main thing I found is to be very careful to cut the opening very cleanly, I would use duck tape to join then together, and strips of thin cut mounting board across the top to make sure the carriers were pressing down as firmly as possible on the negatives, to keep them flat

MattKing · Jun 28, 2020

There is also some advantage to using glass on the top side only. ANR or partially etched glass is best.
You also might be able to make use of the Beseler carriers.

Horatio · Jun 28, 2020

MattKing said:
There is also some advantage to using glass on the top side only. ANR or partially etched glass is best.
You also might be able to make use of the Beseler carriers.

I’ll give that a try as well!

Ian Grant · Jun 28, 2020

Donald Qualls said:
Mat board has been used for custom sized or improvised negative carriers approximately forever. A layer of packing tape, carefully applied to be wrinkle free, will help avoid negative scratching. Strips of straight tape can act as rails to guide the negative strip, to ease getting the actual image area aligned with the mask opening.

Another option is glass -- Anti Newton Ring (or the anti-glare glass from a better picture frame, much cheaper but less durable than acid-etched ANR) is preferred for the upper side, which contacts the film base, and strips of tape can serve as both negative guides (between the glass layers) and frame mask (bottom side of the lower glass, so it doesn't interfere with negative positioning. Once again, this is great for sizes that are hard to find -- 6.5x9 sheet film, for instance -- or oddball film sizes, or those with offset frames (828, 126, 110, Minolta 16, etc.)

A trick with Mat board is to toughen it up with wood hardener or Super Glue, get it to soak in - needs care . I've made my own Aluminium 35mm and glass inserts for Durst enlargers. My personal preference is glass on the bottom and metal frame on top to hold the negative flat, and that also helps eliminate dust issues.

Agree there's odd sizes with no available masks, Quarter plate, 9x12, 6x17 etc in my case, Mat board is by far the easiest. Here in the UK 7x5 inserts for a De Vere 5108 are none existent but they must be made for the US market, after all De Vere make a 507 enlarger, should add we had Half & Whole plate cameras and film was available for them into the early 1970's, then nothing between 5x4 and 10x8.

Back to the OP's question, I've made complete negative carriers from Aluminium and wood in the past and it's quite easy.

Ian

Horatio · Jun 28, 2020

Ian Grant said:
A trick with Mat board is to toughen it up with wood hardener or Super Glue, get it to soak in - needs care . I've made my own Aluminium 35mm and glass inserts for Durst enlargers. My personal preference is glass on the bottom and metal frame on top to hold the negative flat, and that also helps eliminate dust issues.
...
Back to the OP's question, I've made complete negative carriers from Aluminium and wood in the past and it's quite easy.

Ian

Thanks for the mat board tips, Ian. I’d try aluminum if I had shop tools (and skills). Perhaps basswood or balsawood would work. I have hand tools, but precision would be the trick.

Pieter12 · Jun 28, 2020

Diane Arbus famously used a cardboard negative carrier for her prints, allowing the soft edges to appear in the frame rather than masking them with easel blades. In fact, she became upset when a workshop student of hers started to do the same...she felt it was part of her signature look.

John Koehrer · Jun 28, 2020

Thin aircraft plywood from the local hobby emporium works very well too. I will use 1/32 or 1/16" & cut using a new blade or scalpel
then paint it matt black. For a fact I got lazy & just made on using matt board.
Using Ian's hardening technique gives much sharper edges.

koraks · Jun 29, 2020

I've used MDF to create a carrier for my Durst 138. It's got inserts for 4x5, 120 (various sizes, mostly use 6x6 + 6x12) and 35mm and masks to go along with them. Pretty convenient and quite well-aligned as well. MDF is pretty easy to work with and as long as it's kept dry it's dimensionally stable.

DREW WILEY · Jun 29, 2020

Egad. Why not use an uneaten graham cracker? - that's just about as stable as some of the materials just mentioned. CNC machines are all over the place these days, so one can make something far more seaworthy without a lot of fuss. But one doesn't even need that. Basic shop tools will work. It's the material that counts. Undrilled circuit board material, which is a phenolic plated on both sides, is an excellent dimensionally stable DIY option. I wouldn't personally want Jed Clampett driving off with my own 138 piled atop his truck amidst goats and pigs and MDF furniture. Classy enlargers deserve classy carriers. Diane Arbus?, Cardboard?? ... Not my cup of tea, either way.

koraks · Jun 30, 2020

We sold off the goat 30 years ago.

DREW WILEY · Jun 30, 2020

Well, at least now I know where people go to get particle board seats for a Ferrari.

grat · Jun 30, 2020

The best option is going to be 3D printing, but it's a rabbit hole of it's own. If you know of someone with a 3D printer, or your local library has one, it could be an option. They typically can handle up to 200mm x 200mm (7 3/4").

Alternatively, you could pick up some ABS plastic sheets off of Amazon or the like, and cut something out using a utility knife.

Donald Qualls · Jun 30, 2020

Always glad to see people continuing to assume everyone has the resources they do, or the willingness to wait next to forever to find access to those resources.

Sure, CNC is everywhere. People who have it and the skill to program it don't typically work for free, and how many of them are film photographers? Or are you volunteering, @DREW WILEY ? Surely it's better for someone to be in the darkroom, printing, than for them to still be saying, two years from now, "I'll be able to print as soon as I find someone who can make a carrier I can afford."

At least the 3D printing community seems to mostly share their designs. Of course, a negative carrier for a 6x6 or larger enlarger stage is probably going to require a printer bigger than the bottom end, so that's $500+ for a tool to make a tool that ought to cost a couple bucks -- and then the time to learn the 3D CAD software to produce the design, if there isn't one on Thingiverse.

Good grief.

DREW WILEY · Jun 30, 2020

Good grief, indeed. Are we back in the swamp, with a bandsaw made of a willow stick attached at the other end to a wagging hound-dog tail? Such things can be very affordably done all kinds of ways in a basic home shop - a jigsaw table, a router table, a basic drill press, even hand tools if necessary, can all work aluminum plate stock. What good is a neg carrier that warps? And as far as the real deal goes, it might take a bit of lucky timing, but I've seen clean Nega 138 carriers go for as low as $35. Yeah, that's a rare find. Usually they're quite a bit more. But still older types of official carriers, not the book-type, routinely sell for little, and are at least precisely made of diecast alum. alloy and dimensionally stable. That alone should be a clue. ABS warps, as does plywood unless exceptionally well sealed; and cardboard ????? I think what people really want is just the free toy inside the Cracker Jacks box.

Horatio · Jun 30, 2020

Thanks for all the suggestions. Meanwhile I was able to print a full-size version of an overhead image of the 6x6 carrier, to use as a template.

Horatio · Jul 4, 2020

Update (for anyone who cares), I found the Vivitar 35mm carrier, so I now have a proper template to build more. I’ll post a follow up thread sometime after making one. Thanks for all the suggestions.

ic-racer · Jul 4, 2020

I believe that Vivitar uses a squeezing mechanism to hold the negative carrier. In that case making new carriers is not that difficult. I have a Minolta Mod III that works in a similar fashion, by setting the weight of the head on the negative carrier to keep it closed.
From aluminum I made a 16mm carrier. Later, I made a 35mm glass carrier, with AntiNewton glass on top and regular glass on the bottom simply held together with tape.

Horatio · Jul 4, 2020

Those are cool. Nice work.

FWIW, I did a trial fit of the Beseler carriers. They fit, but there’s about a half-inch gap that would need to be filled to make a tight seal. Foam core of some type (black, of course) would probably work.

There is no mechanism to lower the head or raise the carrier. It’s just a slot.

ic-racer · Jul 5, 2020

I'd recommend trying to make a glass carrier. The thing with 35mm and 6x6 is that my tests showed curve of the film is opposite the curvature of the lens field (at high magnification; 16x20 etc.). For 5x7 and smaller, probably does not make any difference, though. So anything you can come up with should work.

Horatio · Jul 5, 2020

ic-racer said:
I'd recommend trying to make a glass carrier. The thing with 35mm and 6x6 is that my tests showed curve of the film is opposite the curvature of the lens field (at high magnification; 16x20 etc.). For 5x7 and smaller, probably does not make any difference, though. So anything you can come up with should work.

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. Glass would be easier to work with. Well, not as easy as mat board. lol

ic-racer · Jul 5, 2020

I got most of my Anti Newton glass very cheap from a one time purchase of broken and scratched 5x7 and 4x5 Durst glass for almost nothing. Though, I see that the correct glass is getting harder and harder to obtain at a reasonable price.

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