DIY MF Scanner

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maher

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Jan 1, 2006
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Hampshire, U
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I've just completed a little experiment entitled "how to scan MF B&W negatives on the cheap". Thought I'd post the results for all to see...

Heres the setup:

1). Take one digital camera, in my case, a Sony Alpha with an 18-250 safari zoom (possibly the worst lens I could pick for this type of work)
2). Go down your local photography shop and buy a lightbox. In my case, this cost 10 from Jessops.
3). Setup your tripod in a dark room.
4). Put the neg on the lightbox and snap each negative in a dark room
5). Use photoshop to invert the pictures

You see where I'm aiming here? The point being is to create a reverse-enlarger.

Surprisingly, the initial results are very good. I've attached a couple of pictures here. The main points are:

1). Photo reproduction is very good with fine detail accurately represented (10mp camera in raw mode)
2). Noise is low - much lower than I've seen on my old Minolta scanner and grain-aliasing problems are not apparent.

The not-so-great points are:

i). Dynamic range sucks.
ii). Pictures are very soft and diffused.

The first point was overcome on the next experiment - using HDR techniques, taking 3 shots at 0.7ev apart and merging them using Photomatrix. This pretty well recovers the dynamic range issues and costs very little in extra processing time (compared to waiting for a scanner).

However, the latter point is more involved. The pictures are showing classic signs of lens diffraction. This isn't too suprising considering the lens I'm using to do this with: a 18-250 safari lens at almost maximum reach. This is far from ideal, but I have little room to play here. Bringing the lens back down to a reasonable focal length (and sweet spot) knocks the focussing out of align, because it's go no macro facility. However, the main point is that 'it can be overcome with a decent lens'.

I've attached three pictures. Firstly, the photographed negative. Secondly, a closeup of that neg. Finally, a closeup of the same neg scanned in using an Epson 4490. Please forgive the dust on the photo - the neg sat on my desk for around 24hours while I was trialing different things - didn't notice it'd got dusty till after I'd finished. Also please note that this negative was not perfect to begin with - it was fairly overcooked (sorry, I'm not experimenting with my good stuff).

In conclusion...

Will I scan my negatives in this way? No, I went out and bought a flatbed scanner.

However, my only reason for doing this was the need for a decent lens, which would cost more than the scanner did. If you already own a decent lens for the job, then my failing hurdle can be overcome.

More importantly, this method will offer something a scanner cannot: an analogue representation of an analogue picture. This may sound strange, but my past experience of scanning negatives has been, well, negative. I don't like the clinical, pixel-perfect, view of the world. It took a while to try and understand my dislike, compared with an enlarger view. I think it's akin to the record vs. CD debate. The point is that an enlarger isn't a perfect being, just like a record player. A little lens diffraction adds substance to the picture and removes the news-print-like grain from the negative. This just isn't done on a scanner. Hence you get a far superior picture (just like a CD), which isn't always pleasing to the eye.

Enjoy!

Mat
 

pellicle

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May 25, 2006
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Hi

this topic seems to be coming up on a few forums at the moment.

Its actually an old method and once upon a time was called duplication. People used to:
* duplicate slides
* make larger format inter-negatives for printing slides
* make slides from negative

special films once were common for some of these tasks.

There's some nice stuff available for this, but if you're comfortable with using a light box as your source then try fishing around for a copy stand for your DSLR


I've just completed a little experiment entitled "how to scan MF B&W negatives on the cheap". Thought I'd post the results for all to see...

Heres a handy setup:
MacroScanning.jpg


after all the struggle you may just wish to try an Epson 4990 second hand. Cost less than a good lens for your DSLR
 

pgles

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Apr 16, 2006
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Perhaps there is another advantage to using a digital camera for copying film slides for example. If the images are shot using camera RAW, then color correction especially should be possible. I have been thinking of trying this for a while but have not yet done it. The light source from an old slide copier or a flash through opal glass might improve the contrast issues.

Many of us have a digital body and a macro lens to get close to 1:1. Has anyone tried analog to RAW file to print or digital negative?
 

pellicle

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May 25, 2006
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Les

I tried it with negative and was disappointed with the work flow (not to mention getting inferior results). I have been fooling with digital cameras as slide and negative copier systems since 2000 when I moved to japan, was using slide and film mostly, wanted to email friends with images and didn't have my scanner with me (which was an LS-1000 then)

I am in the process of fooling with altered light sources for scanning as flatbed light sources are easier to tamper with than Nikons (for example)
 

cje2002

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Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
7
Location
Edinburgh
Format
35mm
I have been lurking for a while but thought I would chip in with my own experiences here, which are slightly different.

I have been happily using a Minolta DS III for many years and have recently bought a Pentax 645 (nice camera by the way). My DIY hack was to buy another negative holder and slice away the guide on one of the sides. This means you can position a single 645 frame in different positions across the window so as to get 4 stitchable pieces, with enough overlap. (The frame lies flat and is held in place at the edges as normal.)

Then you bring the 4 pieces into hugin (panorama stitching tool) and try to make sense of them.

To cut a long story short I am in the market for a MF scanner. I have managed to get the pieces all stitched together but there always seem to be exposure inconsitencies at the joins (in spite of using consistent exposure in the scanner etc).

I would be very interested to know whether anyone has any success stories. Based on my own experiences I wouldn't recommended trying this - someone more persistent than me may have had better luck though!

Chris
 

pellicle

Member
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
1,175
Location
Finland
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4x5 Format
Chris

its interesting we share common initials ...

on the subject of the scanner I found the Epson 4870 or 4990 to be great value for money, with a little effort can do a lot more than people think.
 
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