Disposing of chemicals away from a septic system

Daniel Grenier · Apr 27, 2006

I am moving to the country on a beautiful lake and the house has a septic system. I've never had a septic system and I've always dumped my chemicals in the city system but my new septic system cannot function with me simply dumping my chemicals down the drain. I'd kill it in a hurry.

How do you guys in the country dispose of your chemicals in an ecologically friendly way?

Thanks

John Bartley · Apr 27, 2006

Daniel,

I think I'd be more concerned about chemicals getting into the water well rather than the septic system. I have no idea what troubles a small amount of photo chemicals can cause to a septic system, but one solution is plastic drums for storage and then have them taken away for disposal. Another possibility (and one that I plan to explore for our home when we build it) is a separate small septic system for "grey water" which will leach out into a bed of cattails. I've read that cattails have an ability to remove chemicals and metals from the waste water and leave it almost drinkable.

cheers

reellis67 · Apr 27, 2006

I'm on septic, but I was able to work out a deal with the darkroom here at work (a school) so that I can drop off my used developer and fixer in their tanks, which are routinely recycled by a local chemical recycler. If there is a community college near by you could see if they have a darkroom and they might be able to help you out.

You might also ask at the local fire house or perhaps your waste management company to see if either of them take hazardous chemicals. Both do where I live, but I have to take them in to a specific location - and they don't recycle the materials, but at least they don't go in the ground water.

- Randy

firecracker · Apr 27, 2006

Daniel Grenier said:
I am moving to the country on a beautiful lake and the house has a septic system. I've never had a septic system and I've always dumped my chemical sin the city system but my new septic system cannot function with me simply dumping my chemicals down the drain. I'd kill it in a hurry.

How do you guys in the country dispose of your chemicals in an ecologically friendly way?

Thanks

You really can't. Especially if your new place gets house water from the lake, you really don't want to dump anything into it.

I live in a countryside in Japan. I save the used chemicals in my plastic containers and pay the local photo shop guy to collect them for disposal.

So, I've been trying to cut down the cost and the amount of the use of the chemicals, and now I only do printing at home, not developing film. If I do both, that will fill up my containers pretty quick.

You might have to find a way to work around a bit.

jp80874 · Apr 27, 2006

I take my spent fixer to school (University of Akron) but every thing else has gone down the septic system the last three years.

John Powers

rrankin · Apr 27, 2006

In Australia, there were hazardous waste disposal days where you could bring in your stuff free of charge for disposal a couple of times a year. So I saved a lot of containers and kept them in a locked room until disposal time. The local waste companies also could handle it, but they charged, of course, and were really only interested in larger quantities. At another place, I saved the chemicals then took them one in a while to a location with a city sewer service and dumped them there.

I spent 5 years lving on various septic tanks and would never dump chems into them. And before the inevitable "But Drano is worse than...", I also avoided non-friendly cleaners of all sorts. It seems to me to be the responsible thing to do. Every time I hear of someone saying "I've been dumping into my septic tank for 50 years and never had a problem'. I cringe and hope they and similar thinkers don't live anywhere near MY grandkids.

Cheers,
Richard

jp80874 · Apr 27, 2006

It just depends on what is going on underground and local laws. There is a huge aquafir (SP?) going by under us. We have a half acre pond thirty feet from the house. The rain gutters all dump into the pond. We have two wells. And as I said I take the fixer to school but everything else goes out to the septic.

Has anyone else had problems with their toe nails falling off?

John Powers

resummerfield · Apr 27, 2006

John Bartley said:
......a separate small septic system for "grey water" which will leach out into a bed of cattails. I've read that cattails have an ability to remove chemicals and metals from the waste water and leave it almost drinkable.......

Excellent idea!

Loose Gravel · Apr 27, 2006

I gray water everything but the fix, which I bring to work and send down the toilet.

david b · Apr 27, 2006

Bruce Barnbaum has a way of doing this.

Something like the stop goes into the developer to neutralize it (don't quote me on it).

Contact him at www.barnbaum.com

Gerald Koch · Apr 27, 2006

Articles on this appear in the literature periodically. They all say that for the average non-professional the total amount of chemical waste is not enough to stress your septic system. Just dilute concentrated solutions like fixer before putting them down the drain. I would assume that since your house was inspected before you purchased it that the well is located sufficiently far away from the cesspool.

firecracker · Apr 27, 2006

Gerald Koch said:
Articles on this appear in the literature periodically. They all say that for the average non-professional the total amount of chemical waste is not enough to stress your septic system. Just dilute concentrated solutions like fixer before putting them down the drain. I would assume that since your house was inspected before you purchased it that the well is located sufficiently far away from the cesspool.

If you do that, you have to take the silver out of fix and dilute it 100 times more, at least. But this is usually sugested for dumping into a sewage system, not the septic one as far as I know. I could be wrong.

winger · Apr 27, 2006

I have a septic tank, but the house is on city water. When the town found out I was building a darkroom, they told me I had to get a contract with a disposal company to take away the waste. For most non-production darkrooms, the chemicals dumped into the septic system aren't enough to do harm. There was an article in "Photo Techniques" a few years ago that went through it all chemical by chemical. But to make them happy, I pay about $125 US each time for a 16 gallon tank to be taken away and replaced with an empty one.

Wayne · Apr 27, 2006

When Gerald says "the literature" he unfortunately means articles in popular magazines that undergo no review other than the editor's (like that article in Photo Techniques). More unfortunately, there is no actual scientific literature on this subject (I've looked), just a lot of opinions.

As to whether this would kill the OP's septic in a hurry, that is very unlikely but septic are extremely expensive where I live so I dont take the chance. I will occasionally dump a liter or two down the drain, if my buckets are full. For me its simple to gather used chemicals in 5 gallon buckets every few months or less and take it to the nearest small town where I dump it directly into their municipal treatment tanks for free. Hypo I usually give to haz waste.

Wayne

Gerald Koch · Apr 27, 2006

Wayne said:
When Gerald says "the literature" he unfortunately means articles in popular magazines that undergo no review other than the editor's (like that article in Photo Techniques). More unfortunately, there is no actual scientific literature on this subject (I've looked), just a lot of opinions.

No, I also mean articles by companies such as Agfa.

wfe · Apr 27, 2006

I am on a septic system and know a few others who are as well and dump everything. Certainly not in a high volume production scenario. I have been doing it for about 3 years without any noticable problems but it is a concern and I am looking for alternatives. I tried contacting waste disposal companies and they didn't understand anything about photo chemistry and what I was able to gather would be cost prohibative.

I would like to do more printing and possibly even do some printing for other photographers but I don't want to dump any more in the septic system.

I would actually prefer not to dump the chemicals at all. As time goes by my concerns are growing.

Gerald Koch · Apr 27, 2006

Organics such as developing agents are going to be degraded by bacteria in the soil. While silver can harm living things, the silver in fixing solutions will form a sludge of silver sulfide at the bottom of the tank under the conditions found in septic tanks (lots of hydrogen sulfide). The solubility product of AgS is 10(-51) (that is 10 to the minus fifty-first power)! AgS is one of the least soluble substances known. Yes, it will dissolve in acid but we are describing conditions in the tank.

Unfortunately laws and regulations are created by, how can I say this politely, not the most knowledgeable people.

wfe · Apr 27, 2006

Gerald,
Any idea how much AgS it would really take to cause a problem in a septic tank?

Gerald Koch · Apr 27, 2006

wfe said:
Gerald,
Any idea how much AgS it would really take to cause a problem in a septic tank?

It can't cause any problem because its insoluble. The same goes for other metallic elements such as iron and chromium which would also be present as insoluble sulfides.

Charles Webb · Apr 27, 2006

I will throw this in for what it is worth. I was the photographic services manager of a large mid west toy factory. We were located pretty much in the middle of nowhere surrounded by several distant small towns. We had 3 large darkrooms dedicated to Lith camera work, continuous tone and plate making for press work. There was a large septic system that handled everything we needed to dispose of. The first ten years we were inspected by COOSHA,and later by OSHA. In the 22 years I spent with that company we were never cited or warned about the dumping of photographic chemicals into the septic system. They were extremely concerned with the heavy metal, that it would cause major problems. It was measured somehow by parts per million, and we showed no trace of silver or other contaminants in the septic system or in the surrounding 1000 feet of the septic system. We were dumping anywhere from 10 to fifteen gallons a week for the entire time I was there. There was absolutely no evidence of the photo chemicals causing any kind of problem with the septic system. COOSHA and OSHA even though they pulled many surprise inspections to this day have not found any thing in that system that would raise so much as an eyebrow.

My comments here are not to fan a flame or cool the thread, it is simply to tell of my experience.

Charlie.....................................

Papa Tango · Apr 27, 2006

More worry than necessary

Normally at the volume most of us work adding these chemicals to the septic system will not kill the bacteria working the tank. The best way to dispose of the chemicals in the septic are as follows:

Get two 5 gallon plastic buckets with lids

Pour spent developer and fixer into each one.

Put a non-soap steel wool pad (available at hardware stores in bulk) into each bucket. Leave for a day or so. This collects the silver and silver salts. Remove, bag, and dispose of in the trash.

Pour developer, fixer, and any spent stop collected together into one bucket.

Let sit again for a couple days. The chemicals will essentially reduce to their elemental salt forms and become pretty tame.

Dump down the drain or toilet.

All Done....

Flotsam · Apr 27, 2006

I dispose of a small quantity of B&W dev, stop, fix, hypo eliminator and more screwed-up prints than I care to acknowledge.

What would be the best way way to reduce the volume of liquid or materials that would have to be transported to the waste site for disposal?

Put all the chems in a container and allow the water to evaporate, (re)concentrating the solutions and then bring that smaller amount to the haz waste place along with my spent batteries, old garden chems and obsolete computer stuff?

How about using steel wool to collect out the Silver from the fix then mix, dilute and dump the remaing liquids down the drain and then just bring the steel wool the waste place? That would make a small, light package to tote. I really dont do enough volume to make silver recovery worthwhile.

Edit> Sorry Patrick, I started typing this post before I saw yours.

Monophoto · Apr 27, 2006

We lived in a home with a septic system for 29 years. I had the privilege of replacing the septic system twice. Kinda reminded me of planting money in the back yard, except that it never grew.

The first replacement came about five years into our occupancy - when the house was about 30 years old. I was told at the time that 30 years was pretty good for a house with two occupants.

When we bought the house, the graywater from the laundry drained into a separate dry well. I had set up my darkroom shortly after replacing the septic system the first time, and for the first couple of years that's where it drained. Then I moved the darkroom to the basement and had it drain into the laundry system. Unfortunatly, about 10 years later the line to the laundry drywell clogged, and my plumber friend couldn't get the line open to clean it out, so he put in a lift pump to drain the laundry into the septic system. Oh - and we had two kids. The second septic system lasted 20 years. I don't know what caused that failure - but I suspect it was a combination of many things - more people equals higher volume, laundry graywater (that's supposed to be very bad on septic systems), a little darkroom chemistry, the fact that the replacement system used a drywell rather than a drainfield, or maybe I didn't get it pumped often enough.

As to contaminating a drinking water well - yup that's a problem. But which is the greater risk - a little darkroom chemistry or all that e-coli passing through domestic toilets?

Our solution was to move to a new house on a sewer line. Great - but now there's a new problem. We're are the bottom of the hill, and there's this thing called a grinder pump that we have to worry about. I suspect that replacing it will cost about the same as replacing a septic system. Only you don't have to tear up the lawn to do it. But there is another problem - if the power fails, you start rationing flushes! Explain that to your domestic partner.

Bottom line - this is problem for which there is no painless solution. The best you can do is maintain your sense of humor.

jp80874 · Apr 27, 2006

Monophoto said:
Bottom line - this is problem for which there is no painless solution. The best you can do is maintain your sense of humor.

It is kind of hard to chuckle when one of those babies backs up the pipes.
Been there and dug up a couple.

John Powers

resummerfield · Apr 27, 2006

Flotsam said:
I dispose of ......... more screwed-up prints than I care to acknowledge.........

Wouldn't there be more silver in those prints than in that spent fix? And if so, should we take those reject prints to the haz-mat facility?

Disposing of chemicals away from a septic system

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