Disposal of darkroom fixer in the Boston, MA area?

aldevo

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I have just finished building my first darkroom and am about to put it to use.

Before doing so, I would like to have a strategy for properly disposing of my fixer.

Does anybody know of any outfits near the Boston, MA area that will accept moderate amounts of used darkroom fixer (say, a few liters per month) and dispose of it properly?

Thanks
 

winger

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I used Safety Kleen, out of Marlboro (I lived in Franklin). They "gave" me a 16 gal container and I called them to have it switched out when it was full. It took awhile to fill it and it was about $100 each time. I didn't have to take the chemicals to them, at least. John Nanian (in Providence and posts here) knows of someone who is cheaper, but I can't remember the name.
 

Ian Grant

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Here in the UK the regulations for disposing of photo-chemicals are based on the US model.

Fixer can be disposed of via a normal drain, it should be de-silvered first and its pH adjusted. In practice in commercial labs after de-silvering the acidic fixer is mixed with spent alkaline developer and diluted before disposal to the drainage system.

While it is normal to have to obtain permission to dispose of any chemicals this is so the authorities can monitor and guage the load reaching a water treatment plant.

I spent time in the US looking at photo chemical disposal about 3 years ago and worked for a UK precious metal company, we installed silver recovery machines and also collected may hundreds of thousands of gallons of fixer every year for silver recovery. We were licensed to dispose of the de-silvered fixer which was done by mixing with spent developer and then diluted.

In practice water authorities normally have no interest in the very small quantities of chemicals from a home darkroom.

Ian
 

removed account4

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i am not sure if the company i use is cheeper than safety clean anymore,
they used to be. it cost me about 100$ for 15 gallons last summer (about the same as bethe)

Ian Grant said:
In practice water authorities normally have no interest in the very small quantities of chemicals from a home darkroom.
Ian
Click to expand...

i wouldn't say that to someone working for one of the local government agencies. there are stiff fines for people who dump chemicals, and
i know someone who was fined a hefty sum.
 

Ed Sukach

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All I can say is that I have consulted a licensed plumber - happens to be my son - who is intimately concerned with the EPA rules. He has informed me that no one, Federal or Commonwealth, is concerned with the discharge of less than 25 (twenty-five) gallons a month of chemicals, with some exceptions - trichlorethelene is one.

He went over all the chemistry in my darkroom (I have all the data sheets),, and with the exception of one Cibachrome P30 kit, told me there was nothing to be concerned with - not even the one item marked with a "poison label" - Kodak Indicating Stop Bath (I don't even use this anymore - I use dilute white vinegar now).

Sliver - I've tried to determine the amount of silver washed away in developing black and white film, and paper... so far, without success. It is my guess that it is not a great amount.
 

Ian Grant

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jnanian said:
i wouldn't say that to someone working for one of the local government agencies. there are stiff fines for people who dump chemicals, and
i know someone who was fined a hefty sum.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree with that, the company I used to work for bought out a competitor because the owner had to sell to pay his fine for illegal disposal, £80,000/$160,000.

However most local authorities / water treatment companies have a policy on small scale disposal, and there is a volume threshold before you need a license. That volume before you need consent is very much higher than any non commercial darkroom produces, but you are still expected to dispose of fixer after de-silvering.

Fixer itself is not a hazardous waste, only the silver spent fixer contains which can damage filter beds in water treatment plants.

I can't find the Kodak publication, but here's something similar Fixer Disposal

Ed has posted the US policy on fixer disposal, and from very many converstaions with the environment/waste disposal officers at UK water authorities its the same here in the UK.

Ian
 

Bob Carnie

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The simplest and safest way is to go to any minilab or photolab , they should and will dispose of the silver for you within minutes of your arrival. It is in their best interests , as it should be law that they have silver recovery units in place , if they are a commercial operation using photgraphic chemicals.
You can get 10 gallon containers to capture your spent fix and give it to them. Trust me they will appreciate the silver they capture from your output.
If any APUGers are in the GTA Toronto , you are welcome to bring your spent fix to Elevator, just give us a heads up that you are coming.
Bob
 

Ian Grant

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srs5694 said:
It's my understanding that there is no "US policy on fixer disposal;" this is a matter for local municipalities to decide.
Click to expand...

That's true and it's similar here in the UK, however there are committees made up of relevant employees and the photo manufacturers which meet and discuss the discharge levels. (Coppice, here in the UK).

Permitted discharge levels do vary but in general most water authorities in the UK and municipalities in the US operate very similar policies.

Of course it is wise to find out the local policy where your darkroom is situated.

Ian
 

Ian Grant

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Bob's suggestion is excellent, in the US most Walmart's operate silver recovery machines. But a more specialist photo shop would probably be more helpful.

Ian
 

Paul Howell

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I know this off topic as the question cancered Boston, but for Phoenix the City Regulations required that wast water discharged in the city system have less than .05 per Million parts sliver, my math skills are old and rusty, how much in terms of parts per million does a gallon used fixer have? I doubt that I am even asking the right question. As it is Phoenix treats 70 billion or more gallons of water a year.
 

Bob Carnie

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regarding the legalities of dumping chemicals down the drain with silver or heavy metal content DON'T DO IT no matter what the laws in your, city/ town/province/state/country say.

Three years ago I was visited by Toronto Chemical Management officers. They showed up unannounced with their testing devices and demanded to sample the waste BEHIND the flow of the Silver Recovery at the point where the hoses entered the floor drain leaving our building.
I was very proud of the fact that Elevator passed the examination with flying colours. The penalty would have been an immediate shut down of my operation until I was able to comply. This would have meant temporary financial disaster for our company.

I urge all home darkroom users where ever you are located , to consider the risks associated with dumping spent fix. You local plumber has absolutely no idea the implications as well as your local community leaders. Even small usage is no excuse for dumping, and for those who think it is ok , I would suggest rethinking this practice and do not move to Toronto.
We are offering workshops off site that require Jobo processing, included in our kit for making this possible are 2- 50 litre containers to capture spend dev, stop , and fix, which we bring back to Toronto to go in our SRU.

I have two dogs and I practice safe poop and scoop/disposal, which I think in some locals this policy would be silly but to that point I make sure we put fixer through a device that removes the heavy metal before it drains into the City's system.

If the laws become tougher and there are devices that will turn my spent chems into pure water, I can assure you I will do my best to do so.
PRACTICE SAFE DUMPING even if you are not legally bound to do so.
 

Ian Grant

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Silver levels in fixer can go as high as 15gms per litre, but thats from x-ray processors, more typical would be 5gms per litre - 5000ppm

Typically silver recovery machines plating silver out of fixer reduce the level to 3-5ppm the fixer is then passed through a wire wool filled cartridge which reduces the level to 1ppm, which is the most typical permitted discharge level, dilution with wash water would reduce the level to .05 ppm

Silver recovery is a profitable business and it makes sense to recover it efficiently.

Ian
 

Paul Howell

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I guess I will take mine to my Professional Lab when I pick up or drop color work. Still it seems that with 70 billion gallons of water treated, and I think our wast water is used to cool the Necular Power Plant at Palo Verde rather than send down a river to the ocean that the few gallons I use a year is not a majior contibuteor to heavy metal pollultion
 

Bob Carnie

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Paul
take it to a pro lab, its funny how a penny jar over time fills up and becomes an asset.
Every one of us is responsible for space, even if our leaders have their heads in the sand.
Bob
 

Drew B.

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I would visit the local health inspector and/or fire inspector for their take on it. Check the MSDS on the chemicals and if over a reportable quantity, they might suggest something other than throwing it down your drain.
 

erikg

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I use Safety Kleen in my Pawtucket RI Darkroom, as does the Rhode Island School of Design, where I work. Here in Rhode Island we have a state agency that is very interested in anyone with silver waste, even small amounts. The situation may be different in Mass, but you are doing the right thing by looking into it. According to the EPA waste fixer is considered a hazardous material and as such you aren't allowed to transport it yourself, but if you can get a lab to take it from you that is still far better than dumping it. I wouldn't do that in RI, because if the state comes calling, I want documentation that everything is being handled properly. Here it can result in major fines, and I have heard about many.
 

Ian Grant

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A quick search reveals the official Mass DEP position.

One suggestion. "Some local photo processing businesses may accept silver bearing fixer waste for recycling and Management."

The full recommendations are here Mass DEP

Ian
 

panastasia

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I recall from reading about fixer silver recovery some years ago, a simple way to remove silver is by adding steel wool to the fixer. The steal is replaced by the silver (I can't remember the exact chemistry involved) leaving a silver rich sludge at the bottom of the container. I may be wrong, it's been along time since I read about it.
 
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Ian Grant

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panastasia said:
If I recall from reading
Click to expand...

Quite correct and by far the simplest system for smaller quantities. It's easy to make a system yourself, and minilabs often use commercial systems using cartridges.

Walmart US use Mets units from CPAC, Walmart Canada use Metafix equivalents.

Larger volumes of fix or bleach fix are usually passed through a plating unit first, then finally through wire wool before discharge.

Ian
 

Ed Sukach

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Kind of 'threw' me for a moment, there. I was wondering how/ why they were testing an elevator. I get it, now - that's the name of your company.

I urge all home darkroom users where ever you are located , to consider the risks associated with dumping spent fix. You local plumber has absolutely no idea the implications
Click to expand...

Uh, I would have to disagree. I've been familiar with my son's exertions in obtaining his license and the studies of "Waste Disposal": - especially "Toxic Waste Disposal" is one of the most extensive and critical in Plumbing today.

He might well be asked to set up a Processing facility; anything from a 10' x 10' "home darkroom" to a much larger Chemical Processing facility .. and he WILL BE LIABLE, with very few possible excuses, for "mistakes".

If one would like to find enormous responsibility, consider Gas Fitting: ONE (small - really small) mistake can result in a large building blown to kingdom come, and all kinds of accompanying loss of LIFE.

I've said it before: In the future we will be inundated by those with Higher Education Diplomas on their walls, all scurrying about, trying to find someone who knows enough to fix their toilets.
 
OP
OP

aldevo

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Ian Grant said:
A quick search reveals the official Mass DEP position.

One suggestion. "Some local photo processing businesses may accept silver bearing fixer waste for recycling and Management."

The full recommendations are here Mass DEP

Ian
Click to expand...

Ian,

That link is precisely what I have been looking for!

Many thanks!
 
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