Disposal Basics

toejam · Nov 11, 2021

Once I've exhausted my chemicals is it okay to put them in the same container for disposal? My hope is to have one container for C-41, another for Black and White, and a third for E-6 exhausted chemicals. That way it reduces how many containers Im hauling around when it's time to bring them to a chemical waste facility.

AgX · Nov 11, 2021

The ideal way would be to make just 3 parts: spent developer, bleach and fixer.
For this there are over here even EU code numbers for the respective containers.
However it seems the waste/recycling services are no longer used to/interested in such divisions. You might inquire at your service. I got not even a reply.

Donald Qualls · Nov 12, 2021

I agree, the chemically sensible way is to combine all the developers, all the bleaches (C-41 and E-6 bleaches are similar if not identical) and all the fixers (fixer is fixer, to a good approximation).

However, since you'll probably have to transport them to a Household Hazardous Waste collection point yourself, it's a good idea to check ahead and see how they want them packaged -- and in all cases, there's significant advantage to allowing the water to evaporate out of each container (both to extend the lifetime in which you can add more waste, and to reduce the weight of the container for annual or so trips to the collection center).

Worth noting that if you're in a town/city with city sewage (pretty sure everywhere near Chicago qualifies) it's actually legit to put "small quantities" of photographic chemicals from a home darkroom (one-shot developers and one-shot used fixer, for instance) down the drains for sewage treatment to deal with. May not be environmentally preferred, but it might be what your authorities will encourage you to do (and yes, that means the waste will wind up in the lake after treatment).

Neal · Nov 12, 2021

Keep them separate and take them to the Illinois EPA disposal site on Goose Island. They are open Tuesday mornings and Thursday afternoons.

https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/dep...s---computer-recycling-facility-overview.html

Donald Qualls · Nov 12, 2021

Neal said:
Keep them separate and take them to the Illinois EPA disposal site on Goose Island.

Local knowledge FTW.

BAC1967 · Nov 12, 2021

Neal said:
Keep them separate and take them to the Illinois EPA disposal site on Goose Island. They are open Tuesday mornings and Thursday afternoons.

https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/dep...s---computer-recycling-facility-overview.html

Also label what they are, makes it easier for them to sort it into the proper waste streams.

AgX · Nov 12, 2021

If they still are interested.... as I indicated. The influx of photochemical waste at municipal sorters became so little that I guess they no longer bother about it. Thus one likely can just mix all together or even desilver the fixer aas far as one can get and leave thenm the aequous rest.
On repeated emails, hinting at the EU chemical waste codes and asking what sorting they would prefer I got no reply. It would be interesting to learn what experiences on this matter others have made.

pbromaghin · Nov 12, 2021

Most chemicals are safe to go through a municipal sewage treatment plant. Some are not. Here is the latest Kodak Alaris doc on the subject, it also has the waste class codes that AgX mentions:

Microsoft Word - Disposal Guidelines for Discontinued Kodak Photographic Processing Products KES110_May 2009_FINAL save as PDF.doc (alarisworld.com)

Maris · Nov 12, 2021

Years ago I was a scientist analysing chemical hazards in the environment, in sewage, and how those entities interacted with sewerage systems. I comment:

If your usage of photochemistry is below industrial levels it should be quite ok to dispose of used C-41, E6, and B&W, down the drain. None of the components of these processes are persistent bio-hazards that survive modern waste water treatment. There are about 2,700,000 people in Chicago who don't use photochemistry and your contribution to the millions and millions of gallons of waste water treated every day would be undetectable. That's the chemistry side of it.

If you are faced with an enforceable local law that prohibits drain disposal then the waste management company you employ will have to put your used photochemistry into sealed landfill, or Lake Michigan, or the sea, or even down their sewer under some limited license agreement. Who knows?

gone · Nov 12, 2021

Call the folks where you live to see how they want it packaged. Each facility will probably have it's own way that works best for them. As Maris said, it's not that big of a deal. I used to work for a company that contracted w/ OSHA and the EPA, and was part of a team that was responsible for revising the Permissible Exposure Limits to Dangerous and Hazardous Chemicals and Materials in The Workplace. Whew, I haven't written all that out in ages.

We surveyed 5,000 businesses in the U.S. to gather data, correlated it, and presented it to Congress, where it was approved and put into law. It's probably time to do another one, although the chemicals and materials have stayed about the same over time. We presented the data anonymously, but I know exactly who the big polluters are in this country. Not surprisingly, much of it comes from the mining industry, power generation, and the military, all of which are exempt from following OSHA safety rules, but are not exempt from Federal rules that require them to clean things up when they destroy them w/ toxic stuff.

Sorta late at that point! The reality is that my tax dollars, and yours if you live in the U.S., go to pay the military to contaminate the earth, then we pay them again to clean it back up. Or at least pretend that they are cleaning it back up.

removed account4 · Nov 12, 2021

momus said:
Call the folks where you live to see how they want it packaged.

couldn't agree more !
every town city &c is different, what might be right where I live is wrong where you live.

Neal said:
Keep them separate and take them to the Illinois EPA disposal site on Goose Island. They are open Tuesday mornings and Thursday afternoons.

https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/dep...s---computer-recycling-facility-overview.html

I'd contact these guys, Neal's your neighbor

BAC1967 · Nov 12, 2021

I’ve worked some household hazardous waste collections, mostly after the western US wildfires. When a chemical comes up that they are unsure of it often goes into the toxic category. It will then be incinerated which is costly. If they take the time to categorize it by testing, it may go as acid or base depending on the pH. If it has the original label on the container they can usually better characterize it.
I have obtained permits to discharge contaminated water to the sewer system. What they can take depends on the sewage treatment plant. Sometimes I have been surprised at what they allow. A little fix or developer will go unnoticed but if everyone is putting a little of this and that down the drain it does add up. Sure, it will be diluted but where I live if it’s not something they treat for it ends up in the Puget Sound, an ecosystem that is seriously struggling. Of the chemistry I use, the biggest thing that concerns me is the silver in the fix.

drmoss_ca · Nov 13, 2021

We are banned from using weedkillers these days, so my driveway is more green than gravel. Without going into details, I have to tell you that pouring used chemistry onto the weeds not only does not harm them, but seems to make them flourish. Fortunately I also make soap, so spare KOH and NaOH seem to be more effective.

beemermark · Nov 13, 2021

momus says "much of it comes from the mining industry, power generation, and the military, all of which are exempt from following OSHA safety rules,". Funny, I worked in the power generation field for more than 30 years and never knew I could ignore all those OSHA rules and inspectors. And prior to that working in industry and being in part responsible in part for meeting EPA rules the one thing I learned was that individual households were by far the biggest polluters. Companies, ALL companies, are under constant inspection by Federal, State, County, City EPA inspection. A lot of common stuff you dump down the drain, multiplied by a 100 households, would any company heavily fined if they dumped the same amount down the drain.

BAC1967 · Nov 14, 2021

beemermark said:
momus says "much of it comes from the mining industry, power generation, and the military, all of which are exempt from following OSHA safety rules,". Funny, I worked in the power generation field for more than 30 years and never knew I could ignore all those OSHA rules and inspectors. And prior to that working in industry and being in part responsible in part for meeting EPA rules the one thing I learned was that individual households were by far the biggest polluters. Companies, ALL companies, are under constant inspection by Federal, State, County, City EPA inspection. A lot of common stuff you dump down the drain, multiplied by a 100 households, would any company heavily fined if they dumped the same amount down the drain.

The mining industry doesn’t follow OSHA because the have to follow MSHA, mining specific safety standards. OSHA has specific standards for power generation, they have to follow that. https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/regulations/standardnumber/1910/1910.269

mikrat · Jan 7, 2022

Getting ready to build a darkroom after years without - Live on property with a well (90 Feet) and a mound system. I'm thinking I should just dump all the chems into a bucket/barrel and let it evaporate instead of possible contamination.

Sirius Glass · Jan 7, 2022

Small amounts go down the drain; larger amounts go to a toxic waste disposal. All per the local water district's policy.

AgX · Jan 7, 2022

mikrat said:
Getting ready to build a darkroom after years without - Live on property with a well (90 Feet) and a mound system. I'm thinking I should just dump all the chems into a bucket/barrel and let it evaporate instead of possible contamination.

Putting waste chemicals together sometimes can be a bad idea, with surprising effect. One has to know in advance what s going to happen.

Moreover, evaporation will not solve the issue. Toxic vapours may emerge into the atmosfere, or toxic substances will just remain in that bucket. In the best case one just has water got evaporated and by this reduced mass and volume of ones waste.

Sirius Glass · Jan 7, 2022

AgX said:
Putting waste chemicals together sometimes can be a bad idea, with surprising effect. One has to know in advance what s going to happen.

Moreover, evaporation will not solve the issue. Toxic vapours may emerge into the atmosfere, or toxic substances will just remain in that bucket. In the best case one just has water got evaporated and by this reduced mass and volume of ones waste.

Pour a developer in to a basin. Then pour in stop bath with indicator and watch the color change. Worried? Just pour in the fixer and then everything will be fixed, right?

Donald Qualls · Jan 7, 2022

With common B&W chemicals, doing this isn't a problem. There's nothing in most developers that reacts badly with a mild acid, and the color change just indicates that the alkaline developer has neutralized the acidity of the stop bath. Adding fixer won't release any more toxic than (maybe) a low level of sulfur dioxide, and probably not that (and the solution may turn yellow gain, due to the acidity of the commonest fixers).

AgX · Jan 7, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Pour a developer in to a basin. Then pour in stop bath with indicator and watch the color change. Worried? Just pour in the fixer and then everything will be fixed, right?

Pour a strong acid into that bucket and then Kaliumhexacyanoferrat(III). Both stuff from the Apug world.
And then report back at this thread.

Donald Qualls · Jan 7, 2022

Sure, but we don't use those in regular film processing. Potassium hexacyanoferrate(III) is better known (to English speakers) as potassium ferricyanide, commonly found in Farmer's reducer, cyanotype sensitizer, and a few other photographic solutions -- all of which routinely carry warnings against strong acid -- and cyanotype is safe enough it's often done in grade schools with children in the 6-10 age range.

AgX · Jan 7, 2022

Anyway, chemical waste disposal has been discussed here all those years. But we did not find that Holy Grail. Everyone has to come up with a personal solution, out of those brought up over time, most fit to his local situation and his personal stand.

Sirius Glass · Jan 7, 2022

AgX said:
Pour a strong acid into that bucket and then Kaliumhexacyanoferrat(III). Both stuff from the Apug world.
And then report back at this thread.

Since I have never had the need to use Kaliumhexacyanoferrat(III) or even its older relative Kaliumhexacyanoferrat(II) aka Junior in over 60 years of darkroom work, it will be unlikely that I can try your experiment. Please take a video of your doing your proposed experiment and post it right back up here. This should be exciting.

Disposal Basics

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