Discuss a picture by Leibovitz

donbga · Oct 13, 2006

GraemeMitchell said:
Cate, thank you, I was beginning to feel like I was the crazy one until you came along.

When I began shooting I'd see mediocre advertisments, celeb shots, fashion stories, etc, and think I could do so much better. Time passed, I worked, now I see those same kinds of pictures, and think, boy I could have done a lot worse.

And again, I'm not even a particular fan of ALs. I just keep revisiting this b/c I'm amazed at some of the reactionary pretensions about what's what, how celeb portraits are commercial work (it's most often editorial), how it's not art, and so on. I'm not saying this in a passive aggressive tone, and I'm also not trying to say what is or what isn't anything. I don't have a clue. I'm just kind of in surprised at the course of the discussion.

Did you read the article I linked to?

GraemeMitchell · Oct 13, 2006

donbga said:
Did you read the article I linked to?

I'd read it.

What point of it interests you?

(that Jack Nicholson portriat they mention AL did for Vanity Fair is a riot)

donbga · Oct 13, 2006

GraemeMitchell said:
I'd read it.

What point of it interests you?

ALs comments about her own work tend to concur with some of the comments made in this thread.

I don't think anyone has been harsh in their appraisal or opinions of her work nor has anyone made condesending remarks because of her gender. I do agree that her work is used editorially and not commercially.

Sontag had an influence on her and Liebovitz recognizes her own strengths and weaknesses; her friendship and mentoring of SS helped push her work forward. She has dedicated her adult life to her work. I think much of her early success was due to the fact she was at the right place at the right time and ready to take advantage of the opportunities presented to her.

Never the less I don't think she will be viewed as one of the greats of the medium.

Cheryl Jacobs · Oct 13, 2006

AL does both editorial and commercial work. She largely approaches them in the same way, and so I don't worry about nitpicking which is which.

Reactionary pretensions? None here. I don't judge someone's photographic ability based on my own. Her editorial and commercial work is in my opinion better than some and not as good as others. I see no evidence to justify any claims that anyone in this thread is discounting AL's work because of her gender. Being a female people photographer, I certainly am not biased against other female people photographers.

GraemeMitchell · Oct 13, 2006

donbga said:
I don't think anyone has been harsh in their appraisal or opinions of her work nor has anyone made condesending remarks because of her gender.

OK, fair enough. Likely I was taking what people were saying in the wrong way.

I have no interest in the topic gender here. I'm not sure why it keeps coming up, as it was only gently touched on to begin with.

Out of curiosity, who's editorial portraiture work do you guys like and could you name a contemporary portrait artist who will be considered a great, in your opinion? Excluding Penn!

I apologize for how off topic this has drifted...

donbga · Oct 13, 2006

GraemeMitchell said:
OK, fair enough. Likely I was taking what people were saying in the wrong way.

I have no interest in the topic gender here. I'm not sure why it keeps coming up, as it was only gently touched on to begin with.

Out of curiosity, who's editorial portraiture work do you guys like and could you name a contemporary portrait artist who will be considered a great, in your opinion? Excluding Penn!

I apologize for how off topic this has drifted...

So why don't you post your question in another thread?

catem · Oct 14, 2006

Interesting article, thanks for posting.

In fact, I think it backs up everybody's points

It shows the attitude AL had towards her work (I don't think anyone has disagreed, even when speaking in defense of this pic...) and it also shows that she had insight into the limitations of her work, (which I don't think anyone has said her work didn't contain) which for me tends to speak in her favour.

As for the gender issue, yes the point was indeed gently meant, none too seriously and certainly no offence meant to be given, or taken...My apologies if it came over as otherwise, it was meant as a little wry additional aside rather than a main point related to opinions on this thread.

catem · Oct 14, 2006

Hope I'm not being controversial, but...

How's this for a coincidence? ...Have just sat down to read today's Guardian Weekend. Anyone here get it? It contains several of AL's celebrity portraits. Just picking some - Jack Nicholson with the golf clubs, Bill Gates at his computer, Mick Jagger in the hotel room, (looking a bit like Rudolf Nureyev), Willy Nelson, Texas 2001, and in a different vein Bill Chelsea and Hilary Clinton 2000. Hmm... I think they're pretty good.

David H. Bebbington · Oct 14, 2006

It may be interesting to compare and contrast AL with Karsh [of Ottowa], since they have similar positions except for being 50 years apart. I remember being astonished the first time I looked at a large collection of Karsh's pictures - the ones of famous people were great, in some cases iconic (generally he let sitters project their usual public profile and recorded it). whereas the pictures of non-famous people were uniformly terrible!

Discuss a picture by Leibovitz

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