Sorry if this has been reported already but it looks like Ilfobrom Galerie Fibre and Ilfospeed RC Deluxe papers are being phased out. My recently received Ilford price list form my local Ilford distributor lists these papers as "While Stocks Last".
Discontinued Ilford Papers
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have they not been replaced with newer versons?
The fact that they have hung on as long as they have tends to suggest that there were industrial etc uses of them. They may well have been the last of Ilford's paper emulsions being made on their older emulsion plant rather than the rapid-mixing system. Galerie has/ had a very nice low gloss surface, but Multigrade increasingly ran rings around it emulsion-wise. Like a lot of things, I imagine they'd make another batch if someone was prepared to underwrite the risk/ costs.
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Might be worth dropping a note to Ilford. It will be able to state what it has actually decided and possibly give reasons. It is always worth contacting the organ grinder as the saying goes
Just a thought
pentaxuser
That cannot be stressed enough. In today's world of excessively shiny air-dried glossy fiber-based papers, Galerie stood out with its near-perfect surface. It made the lack of contrast flexibility a hurdle well worth working to overcome. I will sorely miss what Simon Galley described on multiple occasions as HARMAN's premium product.
It's worth noting that HARMAN and other manufacturers could reduce their papers' surface gloss by making changes to the top coat they apply. Apparently they don't because attraction to "shiny objects" is a disease affecting many of their customers. Sad.
I'd agree up to a point - however I have a suspicion that the issue isn't necessarily to do with demands for higher surface finish gloss or relative hardening of the supercoat, but rather more to do with visual perception of dark values/ Dmax relative to inkjet etc - especially for the sector of the market that spends too long worrying about relative measurements rather than the complexities of the materiality of the print as an object. Harman do make a semi-gloss warmtone paper for Bergger, so it's achievable - if you can supply enough discerning customers who really want a low-gloss finish rather than the 5K, 24K or Art 300 type of finishes...
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Andrew O'Neill
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I'm surprised Galerie lasted as long as it did, being a graded paper. I used it a few times way back in the 90's, but once they came out with MG IV, I never went to a graded paper again.
Interesting. That would be Prestige Variable CB Semi-glossy. Do you (or anyone else reading this) have information on its characteristic curves as well as whether the "ivory" base includes brighteners? Bergger's data sheet
doesn't include those data. Thanks in advance.
Optical brighteners in ivory coloured papers would make no sense at all.
The idea of those is to use the invisible, just reflected UV light too, by transferring it into blue, visible light. By this not only the perceived lunminosity of the paper is raised, but the blue tinmt gives an extra stimulus within ones perception.
Such is not wanted with ivory paper. A inappropriate approach thus also would be to use a different fluorescent, one that emits in the red.
The idea of those is to use the invisible, just reflected UV light too, by transferring it into blue, visible light. By this not only the perceived lunminosity of the paper is raised, but the blue tinmt gives an extra stimulus within ones perception.
Such is not wanted with ivory paper. A inappropriate approach thus also would be to use a different fluorescent, one that emits in the red.
Yes, understood. Here's my reason for asking. In this post
Mirko indicated with reference to fiber-based paper that "...Only one manufacturer left, only one base left- that´s why we are all using the same..." Optical brighteners are found in that base. Thus, if Prestige Variable CB Semi-glossy has no brighteners, it would have to be a different base.
I'm still very curious about characteristic curves and would appreciate anyone who's made the measurements sharing them here.
As I already stated in another thread, that is what the photographic paper manufacturers say, that they are only supplied one base paper. Their base paper manafuctuer though told me that they all only want that one sort, but could be supplied a variety. Of course for anything non-standard, a minimum lot-size has to be taken.
Concerning the hue of the paper, different approaches can be taken to dye the base, which again have impact on the manufacturing costs and flexibility.
Concerning the hue of the paper, different approaches can be taken to dye the base, which again have impact on the manufacturing costs and flexibility.
Irrespective of the "why," lack of brighteners in Prestige Variable CB Semi-glossy would be a strong indicator of its "non-standard" base status.
Yet another reason why knowing whether brighteners are used would be helpful. If HARMAN coats on a "universal" brightened base for Prestige Variable CB Semi-glossy and then dyes it to achieve an "ivory" look, things could become rather dingy when those brighteners start wearing out. If, on the other hand, a unique non-brightened base is used, long-term dulling/yellowing would be much less of a concern.
Foma also makes a semi-gloss paper but calls it "matt". It is the warm-tone Classic 132. The surface is very nice, though I am still experimenting with the paper. The base is warmer than Ilford WT and the emulsion, which is is markedly slower. has a different color as well. It also tones to a different color than Ilford, and so quickly that I use a selenium dilution of 1:80 to allow me to control toning from 1 to several minutes at 68-70 degrees F. (With llford, I start a 1:20 and tend to tone from 5-9 minutes.
I'm considering it as a complement to Ilford WT for certain images.
I'm considering it as a complement to Ilford WT for certain images.
I do have an unopened box of the stuff sitting here - the PDF documents that Bergger have online seem to be still relating to the old Forte produced stuff rather than the Harman made product. What characteristic curve behaviours are you wanting it to offer?
On the matter of brighteners, I think there's been an excessive obsession with their behaviour under extreme levels of direct, UV rich light exposure and rather less consideration of their other potential chemical reactions (and whether that will in turn affect their UV resistance) leading to their breakdown - and how commonplace those conditions might be. From what I can tell, OBA's aren't anything like as well ballasted into inkjet coatings (if they are used) as silver gelatin (and from documentary material I've encountered over the years, I think the heavy ballasting of OBA was one of the major selling points of the current generation of Galerie when it launched about 30 years ago) - some offset & inkjet papers are outright blue in colour from the levels of OBA used.
Whichever one(s) will work with the characteristic curves of films I'd select to use with it.
Just wondering what film choices would be viable with that paper.
Which is why, after evaluating many inkjet papers, I'm now using Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta Satin. No OBAs at all, while white enough for my taste. That's why I'm interested in knowing the OBA status of Prestige Variable CB Semi-glossy.
I've written to Bergger asking about both the curves and OBA(s). Will update this thread if/when answers are provided.
I'm not sure what the difference is with optical brighteners being in darkroom wet prints vs traditional fine art prints (intaglio, block prints, etc), but ob's are seen only in student grade art papers. You wouldn't ever use paper w/ ob's for a gallery print because your print will change over time. No one knows exactly when or how much, but they aren't archival. I wonder why they would put them in analog printing papers?
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There aren't too many options for getting above 90% or 95% whiteness (cotton rags and alpha-cellulose respectively) - for the most part your options involve pure linen rag if you don't want alpha cellulose ( linen rag papers are blindingly expensive), pigment of one sort or another and/ or brighteners (all of variable archival stability). Gelatin adds a slight yellow/ warm tint - hence the use of ballasted brightener to neutralise/ cool it. Baldly stating that all 'gallery' papers have to be OBA free, is, sorry to say, absolute nonsense. I can think of several premium printmaking/ watercolour papers that do contain OBA (though often not very much) in their brighter white grades.
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strathmore on optically dead
https://player.vimeo.com/video/282001700
from xrite/pantone: [color managing with OBA]
https://www.xrite.com/-/media/xrite...l_brighteners/l7-567-mfactorwhitepaper_en.pdf
and from archivist point of view [and history]
https://player.vimeo.com/video/282001700
from xrite/pantone: [color managing with OBA]
https://www.xrite.com/-/media/xrite...l_brighteners/l7-567-mfactorwhitepaper_en.pdf
and from archivist point of view [and history]
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