Discard Negatives ??!!!

MattKing · May 5, 2023

I think it is entirely appropriate to come to the decision for oneself not to keep one's negatives. There are risks and disadvantages inherent in doing so, but if one is aware of that, it is entirely appropriate to accept those risks and disadvantages.
I would suggest that it isn't wise to recommend that course of action to someone who doesn't understand those risks and disadvantages.

faberryman · May 5, 2023

wiltw said:
Wow, you take it far beyond the usual 'throw it in a box' approach that seems so common (before digital)! You have made life so very easy for your survivors...sounds like all they need to do is arrange them around the room for viewing.

None of my photographs are of family members, birthday parties, vacations, holidays and the like. My wife was the photographer for those occasions. She and my daughter organized those photos in some fashion a couple of years ago, and my daughter has the ones she wanted to keep. I don't know how she has them stored.

Alan Edward Klein · May 5, 2023

MattKing said:
I think it is entirely appropriate to come to the decision for oneself not to keep one's negatives. There are risks and disadvantages inherent in doing so, but if one is aware of that, it is entirely appropriate to accept those risks and disadvantages.
I would suggest that it isn't wise to recommend that course of action to someone who doesn't understand those risks and disadvantages.

People give their opinions here all the time. How do they know what the listeners understand and don't understand? In any case, who throws out their negatives because some stranger on the web said they did it with theirs?

MattKing · May 5, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
People give their opinions here all the time. How do they know what the listeners understand and don't understand? In any case, who throws out their negatives because some stranger on the web said they did it with theirs?

Some times we have a good idea about how knowledgeable people on the internet are, and some times we don't.
And we certainly encounter people here who are using labs that make return of their developed film optional, and clearly don't understand the value of choosing to have them returned.
So like much in life, it all depends, and our communications to them are best if they are tailored, and responsive, and probably cautious.

Alan Edward Klein · May 6, 2023

MattKing said:
Some times we have a good idea about how knowledgeable people on the internet are, and some times we don't.
And we certainly encounter people here who are using labs that make return of their developed film optional, and clearly don't understand the value of choosing to have them returned.
So like much in life, it all depends, and our communications to them are best if they are tailored, and responsive, and probably cautious.

My style is usually to explain the reasons for my opinions and sometimes give examples. It's the salesman in me. Of course, everyone has different experiences and rate things differently. So they have to decide for themselves in the end.

Regarding labs which I use all the time since I don't have a darkroom, I always get the negatives returned and scan them myself. I've tried regular lab scanning once or twice. I think I do a better job than they do.

wiltw · May 6, 2023

MattKing said:
Some times we have a good idea about how knowledgeable people on the internet are, and some times we don't.
And we certainly encounter people here who are using labs that make return of their developed film optional, and clearly don't understand the value of choosing to have them returned.
So like much in life, it all depends, and our communications to them are best if they are tailored, and responsive, and probably cautious.

Alan Edward Klein said:
I've tried regular lab scanning once or twice. I think I do a better job than they do.

And one of the important 'it depends' criteria is what the resolution (pixel count) of the digital files will have. I have, in the past when getting film processed and returned on DVD (with negatives, too!), gotten images that are under 2M pixel count...which is suitable only for 3.5" x 5" print made from that file, at 300 pixel/inch print resolution! That fell into the reason Alan does his own scanning!
It takes 6MPixel to get 6.5 x 10" print with 300ppi.

faberryman · May 6, 2023

wiltw said:
And one of the important 'it depends' criteria is what the resolution (pixel count) of the digital files will have. I have, in the past when getting film processed and returned on DVD (with negatives, too!), gotten images that are under 2M pixel count...which is suitable only for 3.5" x 5" print made from that file, at 300 pixel/inch print resolution! It takes 6MPixel to get 6.5 x 10" print with 300ppi.

Does a family member know that you have all your digital photos and film scans on your hard drive, and have the technical expertise to access them following your demise? Do they have the interest to go though all of them and decide which, if any, to keep for posterity? Why not do your family a favor and make prints of all the images you think are important, and maybe write on the back of each print relevant information so they will know what they are looking at? That would seem more important than absolute pixel count.

wiltw · May 6, 2023

faberryman said:
Does a family member know that you have all your digital photos and film scans on your hard drive, and have the technical expertise to access them following your demise? Do they have the interest to go though all of them and decide which, if any, to keep for posterity? Why not do your family a favor and make prints of all the images you think are important, and maybe write on the back of each print relevant information so they will know what they are looking at? That would seem more important than absolute pixel count.

You point out very valid issues...

'does anyone know what folder in which harddrive has the tens of thousands of digital photos that are stored'?!
'does anyone have the willingness to keep up with technology evolution and move digital files from one storage media to the other, when it because obsoleted by later technolgy?'

I have brought up those very issues in the past on other forums (perhaps this one), when pointing out the fragility of digital photography, vs. the box full of prints! Thank you for calling attention to the issue for me!

Pixel count matters only to the photographer, who might want to make bigger prints!

faberryman · May 6, 2023

wiltw said:
You point out very valid issues...

'does anyone know what folder in which harddrive has the tens of thousands of digital photos that are stored'?!

'does anyone have the willingness to keep up with technology evolution and move digital files from one storage media to the other, when it because obsoleted by later technolgy?'

I have brought up those very issues in the past on other forums (perhaps this one), when pointing out the fragility of digital photography, vs. the box full of prints! Thank you for calling attention to the issue for me!

Pixel count matters only to the photographer, who might want to make bigger prints!

Actually, I was asking you direct questions rather than raising general issues.

Alan Edward Klein · May 6, 2023

Never mind where the photos are stored. Do your relatives know where to find you important papers, wills, leases, accounting records, computer bookkeeping files etc?

wiltw · May 6, 2023

faberryman said:
Actually, I was asking you direct questions rather than raising general issues.

Why...Is this a test?!
I did do thinking about the questions. What I have done was carefully considered.

wiltw · May 6, 2023

Alan Edward Klein said:
Never mind where the photos are stored. Do your relatives know where to find you important papers, wills, leases, accounting records, computer bookkeeping files etc?

Unfortunately, as people age, they CHANGE all of that, so that past knowledge becomes out of date! That happened with almost everything that my own mother briefed me about decades ago.
It was a process of discovery, in going thru her house to prep it for sale.
Our own heirs will have a far greater challenge in the discovery/management of our digital lives, and lack of info about logins and passwords, too.

faberryman · May 6, 2023

wiltw said:
Our own heirs will have a far greater challenge in the discovery/management of our digital lives, and lack of info about logins and passwords, too.

Do you think your heirs are going to care about your digital life, assuming you have one? If they have the password to your phone, do you think they will go rummaging around your email, text messages, photos, and whatever to discover I don't know what? What exactly will they manage?

My wife and kids will probably pitch my phone in the trash. It's an iPhone 5. Most of the emails and texts I have are from them anyway. With respect to my laptop, I doubt they are going to be too interested in my posts on Photrio. Nobody else is.

People must be living far more interesting lives than mine to worry about this stuff.

I can be pretty blase about all this because I don't have any photos of Pearl Harbor or Kamela Harris.

wiltw · May 6, 2023

faberryman said:
Do you think your heirs are going to care about your digital life? If they have the password to your phone, do you think they will go rummaging around your email, text messages, photos, and whatever to discover I don't know what? What exactly will they manage?

My wife and kids will probably pitch my phone in the trash. It's an iPhone 5. Most of the emails and texts I have are from them anyway. With respect to my laptop, I doubt they are going to be too interested in my posts on Photrio.

People must be living far more interesting lives than mine to worry about this stuff.

I can be pretty blase about this stuff because I don't have any photos of Pearl Harbor or Kamela Harris.

Our heirs will need to contact banks, stock brokerages, life insurance policy companies, Social Secuity...(and on and on) and there might be few clues as to the fact about what we have put into place (especially with the elimination of paper statements), which entitles them to benefits, if we have not declared beneficiaries or our declared beneficiaries have moved or even died before us (and we neglected to update records on file).
They have a reason to care!

And if you live in LinkedIn, they will not remove you unless someone provides them with a Death Certificate. And other social media???

faberryman · May 6, 2023

wiltw said:
Our heirs will need to contact banks, stock brokerages, life insurance policy companies, Social Secuity...(and on and on) and there might be few clues as to the fact about what we have put into place (especially with the elimination of paper statements), which entitles them to benefits, if we have not declared beneficiaries or our declared beneficiaries have died before us (and we neglected to update records on file).

I have a file box with all that stuff in it. My wife and I have gone through it with our kids. We're all set. If you haven't done that already, I encourage you to do so sooner rather later. You never know when you are going to keel over.

wiltw said:
And if you live in LinkedIn, they will not remove you unless someone provides them with a Death Certificate. And other social media???

Who "lives" in LinkedIn? What does that even mean? Why would you need to remove yourself anyway? As far as social media goes, I have managed to avoid that scourge, so they'll be nothing to do there.

Are you quoting this stuff out of a Peparing to Die in 2023 book? And what does this have to do with choosing to discard or keep your negatives. We are far afield from the topic of the thread, as usual.

wiltw · May 6, 2023

faberryman said:
Who "lives" in LinkedIn? What does that even mean? Why would you need to remove yourself anyway? As far as social media goes, I have managed to avoid that scourge, so they'll be nothing to do there.

Are you quoting this stuff out of a Peparing to Die in 2023 book? And what does this have to do with choosing to discard or keep your negatives. We are far afield from the topic of the thread, as usual.

You brought up the 'what have you done to prepare', I merely responded in the generality and had no intention of answer the question about what I did personally! Having buried two in the past 5 years, and preparing to bury two more (currently age 94 and 99) I simply have accumulated experience of the difficulties of bringing someone's existence to an end. I hope you have a FAX machine to send documents to insurance companies, as they do not accept PDF and email.

'Live in Linked In' is figuratively speaking. I have had LinkedIn suggest Contacts to me, and one year the suggested Contacts included I knew that six of them had passed during the preceding decade.
I let LinkedIn know about their flawed suggestion for Contacts, and that is when I learned it must be evidenced by Death Certificate before they remove someone.

faberryman · May 6, 2023

wiltw said:
You brought up the 'what have you done to prepare', I merely responded in the generality and had no intention of answer the question about what I did personally!

So this is more of a "do as I say and not as I do" thing?

faberryman · May 6, 2023

wiltw said:
'Live in Linked In' is figuratively speaking. I have had LinkedIn suggest Contacts to me, and one year the suggested Contacts included I knew that six of them had passed during the preceding decade.
I let LinkedIn know about their flawed suggestion for Contacts, and that is when I learned it must be evidenced by Death Certificate before they remove someone.

I can't believe you even looked up contacts LinkedIn suggested to you. Why would you do that? And how would you know they were dead?

wiltw · May 6, 2023

faberryman said:
Are you all set in that department?
I was asking you direct questions rather than raising general issues.
Do you think your heirs are going to care about your digital life, assuming you have one?
So this is more of a "do as I say and not as I do" thing?
can't believe you even looked up Contacts LinkedIn suggested to you. Why would you do that? And how would you know they were dead?

I sense increasing agitation, which I do not understand. I have tried to answer your questions, not in adversarial or antagonist or smart$$ way, in a 'dialogue', not a 'debate'

I know many of the suggested Contacts were dead because I attended their funerals, or knew close friends who had attended their funerals.

faberryman · May 6, 2023

wiltw said:
I have tried to answer your questions, not in adversarial or antagonist or smart$$ way, in a 'dialogue', not a 'debate'

wiltw said:
You brought up the 'what have you done to prepare', I merely responded in the generality and had no intention of answer the question about what I did personally!

faberryman · May 6, 2023

wiltw said:
I hope you have a FAX machine to send documents to insurance companies, as they do not accept PDF and email

It does not surprise me in the least that an insurance company would not send out death benefits on the basis of an email and a pdf of the death certificate. Death benefits could be tens of thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousand of dollars, or millions of dollars. I don't have a FAX machine nor to I need one. My insurance company only accepts certified copies of death certificates via mail or overnight delivery service.

wiltw said:
I know many of the suggested Contacts were dead because I attended their funerals, or knew close friends who had attended their funerals.

I am surprised that LinkedIn was suggesting your personal friends and acquaintances as contacts. Is suggesting contacts one of the benefits you get with a premium LinkedIn subscription?

wiltw · May 6, 2023

faberryman said:
It does not surprise me in the least that an insurance company would send out death benefits on the basis of an email and a pdf of the death certificate. Death benefits could be tens of thousands of dollars, hundreds of thousand of dollars, or millions of dollars. I don't have a FAX machine nor to I need one. My insurance company only accepts certified copies of death certificates via UPS or overnight delivery service.

I am surprised that LinkedIn was suggesting your personal friends and acquaintances as contacts. Is suggesting contacts one of the benefits you get with a premium LinkedIn subscription?

I am not a Premium member. My usage of LinkedIn has been merely to be able to communicate with professionals associated with aspects of one industry (who are notable in their field, but for whom I don't have busines cards). Emails from LinkedIn still come in with suggested Contacts, and very often its suggestions have nothing to do with me, merely contact-of-a-contact relationships...kinda bizarre. It has suggested personal friends as business contacts, and their relatives as other business contacts...and the suggestions have ties back 4 decades!

gbroadbridge · May 6, 2023

Someone in the thread earlier mentioned that even Digitally Shot motion pictures are being archivally stored on Film, which is a very pertinent comment.

It's true that archival copies of analog motion pictures are capable of being stored that way, normally colour separated and then stored on B&W 35mm film.

It had not occurred to me that a similar method can be used for digital media, with the film not having a copy of the image itself, but rather as a series of dots representing the digital data.

Apparently there are a few solutions popping up which take your digitized images, and then store them using open source ingredients on 16mm monochrome film.

Wish I'd thought of that idea, as it seems like a long term solution to archival storage of digital photos.I'm sure it will become cheaper over time like any other storage media has in the past.

One such site I found is www.piql.com for those interested in the technology.

Sirius Glass · May 6, 2023

I stopped using Linked In when I retired. About a year ago I used it once to contact a past supervisor. Since then I am flooded with Linked In emails but I have not been back.

gbroadbridge · May 6, 2023

wiltw said:
I am not a Premium member. My usage of LinkedIn has been merely to be able to communicate with professionals associated with aspects of one industry (who are notable in their field, but for whom I don't have busines cards). Emails from LinkedIn still come in with suggested Contacts, and very often its suggestions have nothing to do with me, merely contact-of-a-contact relationships...kinda bizarre. It has suggested personal friends as business contacts, and their relatives as other business contacts...and the suggestions have ties back 4 decades!

Linkedin, the Facebook of the 2020's.

A lot of my son's friends at Uni use it in preference to FB, Twitter and all those other tired social media platforms.
Not for any business or professional purpose, just as a way of staying in touch without out of control advertising.

Discard Negatives ??!!!

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Discard Negatives ??!!!

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