Diluting crocein scarlet

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Jarvman

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I was hoping to spot my negatives at some point with some crocein scarlet dye bought through eBay. I found instructions for diluting it here...

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However, I don't have any amonia as stated in the directions. Is this 100% needed or is there any dilution I can use with ONLY distilled water? Cheers
 

Mike Wilde

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I believe 28% ammonia is the garden variety household pure ammonia cleaner found at the hardware store.

The dilutions you use CS at are very dilute, so you want to make sure that the dye is fully and evenly dispersed before diluting to the next round, when you start with the powder.

As to the supplier - pass on the sellers name, or are you in a position to parcel out your lot?
 

Photo Engineer

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Household ammonia is about 2% and some varieties contain detergent and scent. Chemical grade is 28%. IDK which you are supposed to use, having never mixed this up myself, but be careful. One is 10x stronger than the other. The stronger one can always be used in a formula, but the more dilute one most often cannot. That is because you can always dilute something, but concentrating it is difficult.

PE
 

richard ide

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IIRC I just used 1 drop of Photo Flo when I mixed it and no problems.
 

Photo Engineer

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Hi PE, what would the purpose of adding the ammonia to the dye be then? I thought it would just be a case of diluting the dye with water before applying it.

Mike, here's a link to the auction...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CROCEIN-SCARL...rksid=p3286.m63.l1177&_trkparms=|293:1|294:25

Your original reference calls for 28% Ammonium Hydroxide. I assume that the dye is an acid dye that must be dissolved before use and base is the best thing to use to dissolve acid. :D

I really don't know as I never used this. I used Opaque when I did retouching, but since I was never any good at retouching, I gave up.

PE
 

trexx

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I have used it by taking a fine spotting brush and dipping in household ammonia. then tapping the tip to the powered crocein scarlet.

Be aware that the slightest tap will make the crocein scarlet become air borne. Things will turn red and you will wonder why. A little goes a long way.

TR
 

richard ide

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About a 1/2 teaspoon dissolved in 50 cc water. Then take 1 cc of that solution and add to another 50 cc. I did this with each solution until I had 6 bottles of varying intensity. I then would add dye to a negative with a Q-tip or cotton swab to add density to a negative (primarily aerial). By using a dilute solution and multiple applications it is possible to increase density seamlessly. The strongest solution makes a good spotting dye.
 
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Jarvman

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The strongest solution being the stock solution or the first successive dilution? i.e 1cc of solution and another 50cc of water Do you add the photoflo to just the stock solution?
 

richard ide

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Strongest is the first and photoflo in each. Easiest just to mix 500 cc of water with 10 drops of photoflo and use that for all mixtures.
 

richard ide

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The first 50 cc you mix is the strongest. Photoflo is in all solutions. It is less of a PITA to mix 500 cc with photoflo and use that for all dilutions.
 
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Jarvman

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I've just tried it using my finest brush for miniature painting and its pretty difficult to apply accurately, and this is for someone who used to paint 28mm figurines! Had a go at retouching with an ordinary pencil and it seems a breeze. The pencil takes to the underside of the neg no problem and is very easy to direct. This is even before trying to sand the pencil down into a sharper point. Seems the way forward.
 

Mike Wilde

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per "Kodak Photographic Retouching" CS is both a retouching medium and a doging dye. Since most papers only sensitive to blue (not really with MG papers) adding red dye holds back exposure just like silver grains. Diluted to a pale pink wash it can be used to lighten shadows, and even intensify highlights. Looking though a green wratten 68 filter lets you see how the print will see the effect. It is very water soluble so it is easy to remove.

add dye to the base side, since use on the emulsion side can cause the emulsion to swell. only small inticate areas should be dyed on the emulsion side. To dye a large area pre-moisten with a solution of one drop photo flo 200 per oz of water. this allows the dye to flow smoothly and evenly. Apply dilute dye, and build areas up.

To reduce and area quickly, use a 5% household ammonia soultion (one without detergents). Alternately use 5% solution of soduim dithionite, aka sodium hydrosulfite, (oth of which I have never heard of elsewhere). To remove dye everywhere, wash for 10 minutes, then phot flow bath, and hang to dry.

The full work flow summary for retouching a b&w neg is given as :

1) Clean the neg

2) make a proof print

3) premoisten the emusion side with dilute photo flo

4) reduce the neg areas locally as necessary with chemical reducers 1-3 min

5) wash thoroughly 10 min

6) dry dust free area

7) etch locally small areas

8) treat etched areas with abrasive reducer- a paste that softens the edge of etched areas

9) add CS or neutral dye to the base side. Use frisket (liquid maskoid) if necessary to confine the are the dye is to cover, then remove frisket

10) dry 15-20 min below 100F

11) add retouching fluid to the emulsion side and buff until dry and smooth, to keep film cleaner from wiping the retouching pencil off at a later printing stage. Not needed with Portra line, which has tooth for pencil retouching on both sides.

12) use stylus to remove pinholes

13) use pencil to retouch locally

14) sleeve neg until printing to protect your work.
 
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