Digitizing LF prints for APUG

how am I going to get my large format images onto Apug if I don't scan them ???

In the APUG rules and regs I can only place in the gallery my own Images. Not a problem.

What are the approved commercial devices and ways that I can do that per Apug rules?

In the past I have uploaded scanned images of actual prints I have personally made in my home darkroom.
I have also scanned my own negatives and included them in my work. So just scanned negatives.

If I have large format 4x5 negatives and I want to use my Medium Format Epson V500/V600 scanner and software to combine 2 scans of the same image to combine them into one unaltered image, then you mean to tell me ? This is not allowed on Apug ? (An Epson V500/600 can only at largest setting do 6x9 scans of film).

So to be allowed to have my artwork on Apug I have to go buy an Epson V800 or get a second mortgage on my house and buy a drum scanner to be a complete purist ? Is that what I need to do to retain my unblemished honor on Apug ?

Your thoughts ?

who told you you can't?

your thread about stitching was closed because it's about scanning, not because it's not permitted to submit stitched scans.
you might have got hold of the wrong end of the stick

Photoshop and a scanner are capable of doing this same thing to images on a medium format scanner. People have been doing that for years to stick 1/2 scanned negatives together. I just wish it was part of the Vuescan software I own. I don't own photoshop. Nor have I used the link to the Microsoft software.

I still don't understand why it was blocked.

Don't we ALL have to scan our images into Apug ?


I think it's amazing to be able to save "you" hundreds of dollars on a piece of equipment so I can see "your" large format work.

It's kind of like splitting hairs.

I asked the moderators If I can rename the post Or put it somewhere where it is appropriate for Apug users to find it in an approved how to section.

It seems to me you'll just need to work within the rules and/or your means until either one these changes to suit your purpose... Until that occurs, there is still the DPUG forum option to consider.

Title updated.

Discussion of scanning for the purpose of posting on APUG is permitted, but needs to be stated clearly, and can't be used as a way of shoehorning bigger scanning issues (like scanning for the purpose of printing) into the discussion, so it's important to make the limits clear up front.

Now as to the question...

For digitizing prints to post on the internet including APUG (look in the "Presentation and Marketing" forum for a few discussions of this) I usually use a digital camera and a standard copy setup with a copy stand and two lights (some like 4 lights) aimed at 45 degrees to the work, or if the work isn't perfectly flat, at an angle that avoids reflections. Some people cross polarize for this purpose. I also check that the lighting is even with a light meter and a flat disk (Minolta Flashmeter III). If you're just posting for screen display, the camera doesn't need to be particularly expensive, and you can use a tripod (maybe with a copy arm, depending on the tripod), if you don't have a copy stand.

The techniques here are the same as for standard analogue copy work, but you are using a digital camera instead of a film camera. You could get fancy with a laser alignment tool, but I use a couple of different bubble levels (one for aligning enlargers). The prints can be any size, and if you have a lot to do, it's way faster to use a copy setup than to use a scanner. If you only scan for the web, any ancient digital camera with adjustable settings, decent close focus, and ability to sync with your strobes if you don't use continuous lighting will do.

I'm curious about this, too. There was a recent thread dealing with the s******g issue. Surely "that which cannot be named" can be used to transmit images to illustrate one's post? What is the alternative? And where are the rules which deal with the problem of uploading images? I've explored APUG and I can't, thus far, find a section outlining the rules. DPUG is a worthy forum, but it naturally has nowhere near the depth of film lore as does APUG. I'd wager that many of us utilize a hybrid work flow; I scan my negatives and slides into Lightroom which gives me a quick evaluative tool, and also allows me to build a good catalogue of my "images," both film and d*****l. Full disclosure: I'm a retired librarian, so catalogues are important to me!

The unstated rule for posting on this site is to inhale 1/2 gram of powdered hypo chased by a shot of rapid fixer concentrate and a shot of your developer prior to posting.

I scan but only so I can put my images online to show. Of course that is ok on here and has always been. Talking about scanning of film or prints for digital manipulations and printing etc would not be allowed. I hope it stays this way because there are so many such places already online and we need to keep this little gem clean. Not that the other thing is evil or bad but most of us here prefer the analog way and need a place to hold conversations regarding it. Pretty simple really


OH and a person ran over the power pole last night and we lost power the entire night and evidently it killed my scanner. So I might be sharing prints by taking a photo of them with the iPhone.

there is a "hybrid" group in the groups
that can help with scranning issues
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Ozxplorer said:

It seems to me you'll just need to work within the rules and/or your means until either one these changes to suit your purpose... Until that occurs, there is still the DPUG forum option to consider.

Click to expand...

pdeeh said:

your thread about stitching was closed because it's about scanning, not because it's not permitted to submit stitched scans.
you might have got hold of the wrong end of the stick

Click to expand...

apparently.

Ozxplorer said:

It seems to me you'll just need to work within the rules and/or your means until either one these changes to suit your purpose... Until that occurs, there is still the DPUG forum option to consider.

Click to expand...

Within the rules. I am. Scanning negatives to my computer to upload to Apug. This has nothing to do with cheating the rules. The link was software designed to allow people with Medium Format scanners a way to scan 4x5 negatives on their own computer/software to join (stitch) 2 scans of the same negative to make it the same negative without resorting to spending money on a new scanner. This isn't digital photography and manipulation to print some bastardized image or to post it in the gallery. In fact you could use this on any site you wanted. Will the software do that ? Sure. But the point is it's a tool for maximized use of the equipment you already own. Apug's rules are the rules we abide by.

shutterfinger said:

The unstated rule for posting on this site is to inhale 1/2 gram of powdered hypo chased by a shot of rapid fixer concentrate and a shot of your developer prior to posting.

Click to expand...

David A. Goldfarb said:

Title updated.

Discussion of scanning for the purpose of posting on APUG is permitted, but needs to be stated clearly, and can't be used as a way of shoehorning bigger scanning issues (like scanning for the purpose of printing) into the discussion, so it's important to make the limits clear up front.

Now as to the question...

For digitizing prints to post on the internet including APUG (look in the "Presentation and Marketing" forum for a few discussions of this) I usually use a digital camera and a standard copy setup with a copy stand and two lights (some like 4 lights) aimed at 45 degrees to the work, or if the work isn't perfectly flat, at an angle that avoids reflections. Some people cross polarize for this purpose. I also check that the lighting is even with a light meter and a flat disk (Minolta Flashmeter III). If you're just posting for screen display, the camera doesn't need to be particularly expensive, and you can use a tripod (maybe with a copy arm, depending on the tripod), if you don't have a copy stand.

The techniques here are the same as for standard analogue copy work, but you are using a digital camera instead of a film camera. You could get fancy with a laser alignment tool, but I use a couple of different bubble levels (one for aligning enlargers). The prints can be any size, and if you have a lot to do, it's way faster to use a copy setup than to use a scanner. If you only scan for the web, any ancient digital camera with adjustable settings, decent close focus, and ability to sync with your strobes if you don't use continuous lighting will do.

Click to expand...

Thanks David , I appreciate your thoughts, and the scanning forum info.

Greg Heath said:

how am I going to get my large format images onto Apug if I don't scan them ???

In the APUG rules and regs I can only place in the gallery my own Images. Not a problem.

What are the approved commercial devices and ways that I can do that per Apug rules?

In the past I have uploaded scanned images of actual prints I have personally made in my home darkroom.
I have also scanned my own negatives and included them in my work. So just scanned negatives.

If I have large format 4x5 negatives and I want to use my Medium Format Epson V500/V600 scanner and software to combine 2 scans of the same image to combine them into one unaltered image, then you mean to tell me ? This is not allowed on Apug ? (An Epson V500/600 can only at largest setting do 6x9 scans of film).

So to be allowed to have my artwork on Apug I have to go buy an Epson V800 or get a second mortgage on my house and buy a drum scanner to be a complete purist ? Is that what I need to do to retain my unblemished honor on Apug ?

Your thoughts ?

Click to expand...

Other things can be handy. A V800?? Another mortgage!? And a drum scanner?? You can always make a quick snap with your phone... that would at least make it clearer what you are saying. I am unsure whether you are referring to 2 images or 4??

I get many requests from existing and prospective clients for a "simple rep image" and if I'm on the move a phone does it just fine. They get gasp and salivate over the Real McCoys from sparkling drums when I'm back at base. So how about it? Put 'em on your lightbox and beam up a quick snap.

Example:

Poisson Du Jour said:

Put 'em on your lightbox and beam up a quick snap.
View attachment 162754

Click to expand...

Shoot... where can I get a phone with that much screen resolution?

Greg Heath said:

Within the rules. I am. Scanning negatives to my computer to upload to Apug. This has nothing to do with cheating the rules. The link was software designed to allow people with Medium Format scanners a way to scan 4x5 negatives on their own computer/software to join (stitch) 2 scans of the same negative to make it the same negative without resorting to spending money on a new scanner. This isn't digital photography and manipulation to print some bastardized image or to post it in the gallery. In fact you could use this on any site you wanted. Will the software do that ? Sure. But the point is it's a tool for maximized use of the equipment you already own. Apug's rules are the rules we abide by.

Click to expand...

I'm sureties will kill APUGeventually.I'm starting to use DPUG more and more now

You can USE the (s-word) to (s-word) your photos and post them in threads. I have even used images sourced from (d-word) to illustrate principles of exposure and other other topics that are universally applicable in photography. You simply cannot TALK about the techniques and (d-word) equipment openly. Kinda silly, I think, like an acrylics painter not being able to mention his chosen medium on a discussion board about painting. I am surprised it is OK to discuss cyanotypes on a forum principally driven by silver halide chemical processes, but you can get away with that. But the rules of the forum nonetheless, and I play the game.

To paraphrase Ansel Adams,

Although it's allowed by the rules...

I'd rather see a crappy iPhone shot of a darkroom print than a negative scan edited to look like that print.

I have been thoroughly confused by what I have read. I think the OP wants to show his 4x5 negs here on APUG but needs to stitch together the neg in order to do this as his current software is incapable of this due presumably to the size of the negative?

So, in simple terms do the rules allow him to stitch together two halves of the negative so we may see his picture? If the rules do not allow this, then what is the essential difference between stitching two halves of one negative for display and scanning a smaller neg such as 35mm or MF for display?

Thanks

pentaxuser

hi pentaxuser:
i think for a long while
there have been people who
claim that it is not allowed to post
film skaaans here on apug and there is some
sort of rule that says print skaaaans only. for about
10 years or more there have been threads that shout down
film skaaans, but management / moderators
have always said: film skaaans are allowed ... stitching too...

Greg Heath said:

In the past I have uploaded scanned images of actual prints I have personally made in my home darkroom.
I have also scanned my own negatives and included them in my work. So just scanned negatives.

If I have large format 4x5 negatives and I want to use my Medium Format Epson V500/V600 scanner and software to combine 2 scans of the same image to combine them into one unaltered image, then you mean to tell me ? This is not allowed on Apug ? (An Epson V500/600 can only at largest setting do 6x9 scans of film).

So to be allowed to have my artwork on Apug I have to go buy an Epson V800 or get a second mortgage on my house and buy a drum scanner to be a complete purist ? Is that what I need to do to retain my unblemished honor on Apug ?

Click to expand...

greg's skaaaaner doesn't have a lid big enough to lumenize a full sheet of 4x5 film, so he'd have to stitch
and i guess he read negative commentary that suggested stitching negatives isn't allowed here,
it is a pain, yes, and allowed ... people who have prints, films, wet plates &c bigger than their skaaaner's bed do it all the time

good luck greg !
john

pentaxuser said:

I have been thoroughly confused by what I have read. I think the OP wants to show his 4x5 negs here on APUG but needs to stitch together the neg in order to do this as his current software is incapable of this due presumably to the size of the negative?

So, in simple terms do the rules allow him to stitch together two halves of the negative so we may see his picture? If the rules do not allow this, then what is the essential difference between stitching two halves of one negative for display and scanning a smaller neg such as 35mm or MF for display?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Click to expand...

Ok... Pentaxuser...you hit the nail on the head... simply put. Thanks you.

This is not aimed at you.... this is just a reply on the thread.

I posted this whole thing under a different heading and a Moderator flagged my Post as Digital in nature and he shut down the post. I was a bit irritated because there was no way I could contest the shutdown of the post because commenting to the moderator on the post was disabled. Upon communicating with the Moderator(s) they were nice enough to change the title to the post. It was apparently too vague and people thought that it sided more on the "digital" side of things. It was not a digital conversation. In the original post there was a link to software that a photographer left on my Large Format Flickr image on another site after I could only scan my 4x5 Negative image on my Epson V500 as a 6x9 image. You can see the partial scan Hydrangea in the APUG Gallery. My Epson V500 could only scan it in 6x9. The V500 scans 35mm through 6x9 size. The V500 does not scan 4x5. It is not physically possible as the scan lid is too narrow. I thought I would post the link to help other medium format film users realize they could use their Epson V500 more readily for 4x5 if they were dabbling with 4x5, either pinhole photography or camera use.
The Link was software that allows you to stitch two images together. 1 negative. In my case I wanted to scan my 4x5 image with my Mac and Vuescan to then take those 2 scans and put them together so I could enjoy my 4x5 negative, as just a scanned negative. THAT'S IT !!! That's all. Not printed. I only print with Dektol and a Beseler 45M.

I have been searching for a couple of years for Software that would stitch two images together because I can't afford to buy another scanner. It's an affordability issue for me. In this season of my life I pay $741 a month for life for Hormone Replacement Drugs. It's expensive as Hell but that's my problem and none of anybody's G-D business. That's the reason that I can't afford to buy a new scanner. I deal with and work with what I have because IF i waited until I had all the "right" equipment for looking cool in my approved chic photographers vest and $2500 dollar baller tripod, and $6000 hand-built LF Camera, I'd never make any film images. I have had people offer me great advice, I have had wise ass remarks that I laughed at. I have even had offers that I should leave Apug and go hang out on Dpug. I have had people tell me that if I can't afford Large Format Equipment then to restrain myself from the medium till I can afford to play with the LF "annointed" few. Poppycock.
I do enjoy APUG. It is a great resource for film and developing. I haven't been on the forums in quite a number of months. I usually go to find a quick recipe for like GSD-10 or to ask a question. I understand social media and it's limitations and it's darker side to people attacking others. I don't usually have such a thin skin. I need to just go shoot film and stir dektol instead of spending time arguing over stupid crap.

jnanian said:

hi pentaxuser:
i think for a long while
there have been people who
claim that it is not allowed to post
film skaaans here on apug and there is some
sort of rule that says print skaaaans only. for about
10 years or more there have been threads that shout down
film skaaans, but management / moderators
have always said: film skaaans are allowed ... stitching too...



greg's skaaaaner doesn't have a lid big enough to lumenize a full sheet of 4x5 film, so he'd have to stitch
and i guess he read negative commentary that suggested stitching negatives isn't allowed here,
it is a pain, yes, and allowed ... people who have prints, films, wet plates &c bigger than their skaaaner's bed do it all the time

good luck greg !
john

Click to expand...

John, I don't mean to be a spelling nazi but I think you left out an "a" in scaaaaaner.

Greg, Here is a free Mac stitching program that might meet your needs: http://hugin.sourceforge.net/ I have no connection with or experience with this program.