Digital Shooters

gone · Dec 20, 2014

I've been running into a strange phenomena, to me anyway, for the better part of 15 years now. As a naturally friendly sort, I usually attempt to strike up a conversation whenever I run into someone on the streets shooting a camera. 99 out of 100 times, when the person is shooting a film camera, which sadly is not very often, we get into very interesting conversations. In fact, I've made some lasting friendships thus way. On the other hand, I've come to the point where if they're shooting a digital camera I avoid them like the plague. In nearly every attempt to communicate w/ them I'm either met w/ icy stares, curt answers, or they're clutching the lens barrel of their DSLR so firmly I'm sure they think I'm talking to them only as a diversion so I can steal their plastic Japanese camera! This is really not an exaggeration, and it has happened so often that as I say, I don't even bother anymore.

What's up w/ these people? As someone who loves to study people, this type eludes me.

Pioneer · Dec 20, 2014

I had a similar thing occur a couple months ago. I was out with my K1000 at an Air Show. There probably hundreds of people with all kinds of cameras and I happened to spot a gentleman taking photos with his Pentax dSLR. Usually all I see are Canon or Nikon and so when I see another Pentax shooter, digital or film, I talk with them a bit. In this case I think the fella was nervous I was trying to steal his camera. Of course, here I am walking around with a sadly out of date film camera, wearing a beat up hat, rundown boots and scroungy blue jeans. I guess I might have been a bit scared of myself as well.

Sirius Glass · Dec 20, 2014

In 2011 I took my Speed Graphic to the Armed Forces Day at Andrews AFB. More photographs were taken of me taking photographs than the photographs I took.

snapguy · Dec 20, 2014

ps

In Palm Springs, CA there was a statue of Marilyn Monroe with her skirts flying up and I'd drop by there once in a while. Quite a number of photographers who were there to capture the image commented on my film camera and waxed poetic about how they started in photography with a K1000 or something but virtually all were shooting with digitals that day. But I had a number of nice conversations with the photogs. I have noticed in other settings that some digital shooters seem to feel they are second class citizens to film photogs. I guess there is not a legendary digital camera out there -- yet.

Christopher Walrath · Dec 20, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
In 2011 I took my Speed Graphic to the Armed Forces Day at Andrews AFB. More photographs were taken of me taking photographs than the photographs I took.

That's not surprising, Steve. Sexy subject matter. And you're not too hard on the eyes either.

When I do get out with the Calumet, most folks that I encounter are walking by me and feel free to approach. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Chris G · Dec 20, 2014

I was taking pics at my daughters graduation with a bronica sq. Lots of the parents were shooting various DSLRs, some very high end. I did notice this kinda wierd "oh look, he is trying to be different" vibe. I dont usually care but I didnt want to make a spectacle of myself. So I put the sq away, and got out my D4 with a 24-70mm 2.8. A hush fell over the crowd,... in the following moments they were compelled to kneel before me, happily taking what ever scraps of light I left them. The lesser cameras... vanquished. When the smoke cleared... the D4 reigned supreme over all... the egos.. checked.... True story!

Not sure where I was going with that, but yeah you are right, digital shooters are weird I avoid them whenever possible.

Sirius Glass · Dec 20, 2014

Christopher Walrath said:
That's not surprising, Steve. Sexy subject matter. And you're not too hard on the eyes either.

When I do get out with the Calumet, most folks that I encounter are walking by me and feel free to approach. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Alas it will not be the same without the wee little Bear.

Ken Nadvornick · Dec 21, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
In 2011 I took my Speed Graphic to the Armed Forces Day at Andrews AFB. More photographs were taken of me taking photographs than the photographs I took.

This is what happens every time I take the 4x5 Crown Graphic out. It's pristine and right-out-of-the-box new-looking. And it's like a magnet. I am constantly approached to pose for someone's camera or smartphone. Or in one case recently, a tablet.

It's been years since I've encountered The Attitude. Now days everyone is legitimately fascinated and full of questions. Especially the teenagers. I have a set group of background stories I can choose from describing the camera itself, famous photos made with various models of it (flag raising on Iwo Jima, Hindenburg crash, etc.), how the film is processed and silver prints made by me in a real darkroom, and several others.

I always try to play the role of good ambassador for film and never refuse to engage anyone's interest. People love it when you stop and spend time to pay attention to their questions. And even more so if you can give them peer-level "insider" knowledge about what's going on. That's what the stories accomplish.

Another thing it attracts are elderly retired ex-newspaper photographers who already know exactly what I am holding. If I should see white hair approaching and hear "Is that a Speed or a Crown, sonny?" I know precisely who I am dealing with. With these guys if they ask to look more closely I often just hand them the camera and ask them to take my picture posing with their granddaughter.

It's humbling to watch a lifetime of experience work its magic on the instrument. In one case the fellow had the camera up, framed, focused, locked, speed set, aperture set, shutter cocked, slide pulled, exposed, slide reversed and returned in not much more than the blink of an eye. "Holy crap!" was all I could stammer in wide-eyed amazement.

His granddaughter next to me was grinning from ear-to-ear...

Ken

Christopher Walrath · Dec 21, 2014

Ken Nadvornick said:
This is what happens every time I take the 4x5 Crown Graphic out. It's pristine and right-out-of-the-box new-looking. And it's like a magnet. I am constantly approached to pose for someone's camera or smartphone. Or in one case recently, a tablet.

Oh no. The dreaded 'Geyser-with-a-weird-camera' selfies. Haven't had one of those yet.

Ken Nadvornick · Dec 21, 2014

No one thinks it's weird. They all think it's gorgeous and wish they had one. It's the perfect opportunity to gently engage them regarding the continued viability of film photography.

After seeing it I can't tell you how many people have told me they were going to go home that evening and pull out their old Minolta, or Canon, or Nikon, and maybe give it a try again.

Or that they originally put that camera away and bought a digital because, well, the digital was newer and supposed to be better. And everyone else was doing that. But they do wistfully remember really enjoying their film camera.

Now maybe they really did go home and dig out that old camera. Or maybe they didn't. But at least they thought about doing it. And perhaps that planted seed will sprout later on down the road...

Ken

andrew.roos · Dec 21, 2014

momus said:
What's up w/ these people? As someone who loves to study people, this type eludes me.

I think all film shooters are lovers of analog photography and/or cameras. We have to be in order to make it worth our while to spend so much time and effort developing and printing our photographs, or at least waiting while someone else does it for us. As lovers of analog photography, we generally welcome conversations about our cameras, and why we still shoot film or plates. And since we are swimming against the stream, we generally enjoy an opportunity to explain to someone why our way is actually the right way.

Many (although not all) digital shooters, by comparison, have little love for photography or cameras, and certainly no interest in explaining the obvious to Luddites who are clearly not about to suddenly embrace new technology. They are simply taking snapshots, like millions have done for decades. Of course the same people would have been snapping happily away in film days, too - "You press the button, we do the rest". Admittedly, many of them use cameras that are far more capable than they require - the equivalent of a box brownie being about what they need - as a consequence of consumerism and the relative affluence of some western societies. Since they're simply going about their business and taking some snaps at the same time, they are as suspicious of attempts to engage in conversation as you would be if someone approached you in a mall and attempted to strike up conversation about, say, your shoes. (Of course if you happen to be a shoe aficionado then you will be more willing to engage, just as photography aficionados are more willing to engage about their cameras).

Of course there are those who shoot digital who love photography and are always willing to talk about it. But they're swamped by the sheer number of snapshot and selfie takers.

Ricardo Miranda · Dec 21, 2014

In recent weeks, I have encountered people using Digital gear come and ask questions to me and my friend, including a group of college photography lecturers.
Last weekend, a nice girl asked me and my good friend to pose for her in the street. She was using a DSLR.
This weekend, I had stall owner come to me and ask: "Is that a proper film camera?", "Yes" I answered. He then gave a thumbs up and said "Good, keep going".

gone · Dec 21, 2014

Thank you very much Andrew, I think you have something there. Your comments make perfect sense, and now it is a lot clearer to me. That's probably a large part of it, they're simply people taking snap shots, they're not photographers in the sense that most people on the board here are. I develop my own film, print in the darkroom, have the occasional show, the usual stuff on here that a lot of people are into. I'm probably less accomplished than the mean here, where others seem to be able to not only build their own cameras, but their own film as well, but it's certainly a passion, and I spend a lot of time and more money than I should on this because I love to do it. As for the shoes-in-the-mall conversations, I won't be having one of those. Don't even own a pair of shoes. Sandals all the way.

I think the Luddite comment is really spot on. I've told this story before, but a while back I was in a coffee shop that I go to now and then that gets a sometimes pretty monied, straight sort of crowd (I don't live in San Francisco or New York anymore, so this is all I got) and saw someone stare at my TLR and say to someone else "anyone who would shoot a film camera in this day and age....". That's all I caught, but it was enough. Made me feel like I needed to take a bath or something.

Take heart Dan. In my experience, the scruffier the photographer, the greater the chances are that they really know their stuff. Last year I was on my bike downtown, and saw this guy that looked like a homeless person (dirty white pants, beat up, torn t-shirt, scraggly beard) taking photos of me w/ a white pro Canon lens as big as he was. It was attached to a DSLR, of course, but if anyone looked like a working pro, it was him.

Truzi · Dec 21, 2014

Oddly, the past few years I've had fewer people give me grief regarding using film. More often there will be a conversation without asking how many megapixels or why I haven't gone digital. I wonder if it's because digital is no longer the "new" cool thing, often used as a status symbol.

Maybe the people who looked at it that way are now into mobile devices (and the built-in cameras); perhaps those still using dedicated digital cameras were friendly all along, and were merely obscured by the mass of "cool people" who were just along for the ride.

ToddB · Dec 21, 2014

When I'm out either with Rollei or my newly required Leica from my buddy Barry S., there is popular area where amateur photographers go to shoot family pics. When I was walking around I usually get a quick glance at my analog gear. I figure that they think I'm not even in their league of a photographer. So they turn their nose up and they continue to press on. The other case, I approuched by true photographers admiring my gear just by sheer beauty of the Rollei and Leica. Again.. I almost bought off on the digital option when I was looking at getting another camera and saw images shot from Rolleiflex, and was completely blown away. Also that fact the Rollei and leica still work after so many years. Their cameras will be in the landfill after 6-8 years, at an average 3-5 thousand for cost. That's rip off!. Don't get me started those kitsch aluminum prints, those belong in the Stuckey's restaurants, Arrrhggg!

Vilk · Dec 21, 2014

judging by the sheer amount of condescension and insecurity in this thread, if there is no more film one day soon, we will have richly deserved it

summicron1 · Dec 21, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
In 2011 I took my Speed Graphic to the Armed Forces Day at Andrews AFB. More photographs were taken of me taking photographs than the photographs I took.

a friend and I recently took our Graflex SLRs (RB 2X3s) to downtown SLC for a day of shooting. People everywhere were friendly stopping to chat about them.

naaldvoerder · Dec 21, 2014

Vilk said:
judging by the sheer amount of condescension and insecurity in this thread, if there is no more film one day soon, we will have richly deserved it

This is funny! And scary at the same time..

pdeeh · Dec 21, 2014

Gosh this is a pretty mild and reasonable discussion compared to many I've seen here.

I thought it has thus far been rather refreshingly different. Especially andrew.roos' remarks and momus' reply to them

Nevertheless, some people will always take an opportunity to be contemptuously disparaging, but then I expect they will always be contemptuously disparaging of others regardless of the subject under discussion.

M Stat · Dec 21, 2014

Some time last year I was photographing with my Hasselblad on what I thought was a deserted beach in Hawaii. Believe me when I say that there seemed to be no one for miles in either direction, or so I thought. While peering into my viewfinder, I felt a tap on my shoulder. When I looked behind me, there stood a young hipster doofus clutching his precious digital contraption as if it were his first born child. "You're standing in my foreground" is all he had to say to me. I looked up and down this immense and deserted stretch of sand and wondered who the hell he thought he was. I then looked down at my camera and noticed that I had just shot my last frame. Instead of telling him to f**k off (which I should have done), I quietly left without comment. What would have been the use of my pointing out what a jerk he was being? I wonder why he felt that his photo was somehow more important than mine. Could it be because his camera was of a newer technology, or because his camera cost so much more than mine did? I can only judge other people's actions by how I would have acted if the roles were reversed, in which case I would have patiently waited until the person in front of me was finished with their photograph(s), and I would absolutely never have the unmitigated gall to actually touch someone and interrupt their concentration. He obviously had a supreme feeling of self-entitlement and didn't care if he was being utterly rude.

eddie · Dec 21, 2014

I rarely run into negativity when out shooting film. About a year ago, I ran into a man shooting digital with his grandson (I'd guess they were about 60 and 15, or so). I was using my Fuji 690. They approached me, as the grandfather recognized the camera. We ended up in a twenty minute conversation. The grandfather once had a darkroom, and he missed using it. He also said he had lusted after an RB67, but couldn't afford one. When I told him what film equipment is going for, these days, I could see his eyes glaze over... His grandson asked about film availability, so I let them know it is readily available. He then told his grandfather they should get his old 35mm's out of the attic, and try them. I wrote down where to look for stuff- B&H, Freestyle, KEH, ebay, etc. I also wrote down APUG. I don't know if anything came of it, but it was fun talking to them and, like Ken, doing my part as a film ambassador.

wiltw · Dec 21, 2014

M Stat said:
Some time last year I was photographing with my Hasselblad on what I thought was a deserted beach in Hawaii. Believe me when I say that there seemed to be no one for miles in either direction, or so I thought. While peering into my viewfinder, I felt a tap on my shoulder. When I looked behind me, there stood a young hipster doofus clutching his precious digital contraption as if it were his first born child. "You're standing in my foreground" is all he had to say to me. I looked up and down this immense and deserted stretch of sand and wondered who the hell he thought he was. I then looked down at my camera and noticed that I had just shot my last frame. Instead of telling him to f**k off (which I should have done), I quietly left without comment. What would have been the use of my pointing out what a jerk he was being? I wonder why he felt that his photo was somehow more important than mine. Could it be because his camera was of a newer technology, or because his camera cost so much more than mine did?

Have you not noticed the overwhelming sense of entitlement that pervades the thinking of so many of the current generation of parents and the kids they are raising? My wife, the lifelong kindergarten teacher has!

It reminds me of another thread, in which a photographer stood in a parking space in a lot while taking some shots, and a driver was insistent on taking THAT space (even though other spaces were easily available) and gave a dirty look at the photographer. Entitlement.

Rick A · Dec 21, 2014

M Stat said:
Some time last year I was photographing with my Hasselblad on what I thought was a deserted beach in Hawaii. Believe me when I say that there seemed to be no one for miles in either direction, or so I thought. While peering into my viewfinder, I felt a tap on my shoulder. When I looked behind me, there stood a young hipster doofus clutching his precious digital contraption as if it were his first born child. "You're standing in my foreground" is all he had to say to me. I looked up and down this immense and deserted stretch of sand and wondered who the hell he thought he was. I then looked down at my camera and noticed that I had just shot my last frame. Instead of telling him to f**k off (which I should have done), I quietly left without comment. What would have been the use of my pointing out what a jerk he was being? I wonder why he felt that his photo was somehow more important than mine. Could it be because his camera was of a newer technology, or because his camera cost so much more than mine did? I can only judge other people's actions by how I would have acted if the roles were reversed, in which case I would have patiently waited until the person in front of me was finished with their photograph(s), and I would absolutely never have the unmitigated gall to actually touch someone and interrupt their concentration. He obviously had a supreme feeling of self-entitlement and didn't care if he was being utterly rude.

I probably would have replied "that's okay dude, I won't charge you modeling fees", or worse I would have laughed in his face.

pdeeh · Dec 21, 2014

wiltw said:
Have you not noticed the overwhelming sense of entitlement that pervades the thinking of so many of the current generation of parents and the kids they are raising? .

I expect quite a proportion of the folk complaining about the "current generation" of parents etc are the "current generation's" own parents.

So, where did you go wrong in passing on your parenting skills?

"Just asking", as they say ...

Roger Cole · Dec 21, 2014

snapguy said:
In Palm Springs, CA there was a statue of Marilyn Monroe with her skirts flying up and I'd drop by there once in a while. Quite a number of photographers who were there to capture the image commented on my film camera and waxed poetic about how they started in photography with a K1000 or something but virtually all were shooting with digitals that day. But I had a number of nice conversations with the photogs. I have noticed in other settings that some digital shooters seem to feel they are second class citizens to film photogs. I guess there is not a legendary digital camera out there -- yet.

Only the perceptive ones.

That, BTW, is what I technically refer to as "a joke."

Andrew nailed it. The digital photographers I don't have a problem with and usually vice-versa. The digital snapshooters running around with expensive equipment they don't begin to understand, those annoy me. I've been called arrogant before and, frankly, I don't mind. In photography as in many other things I'm admittedly something of an elitist but I strive to advocate only an elitism of meritocracy. Most of the digital photographers (as opposed to snapshooters) used to shoot film, but as digital rolls on and becomes the norm that's less true than it used to be. It's easy to tell the difference if you talk a minute but as Andrew pointed out, most of them aren't photographers and aren't going to want to. I neatly side step this by not approaching them, maybe just nodding if that. If one of them approaches ME, that's different. The view camera attracts a lot of attention but sometimes they're a bit put off by the weird dude with his head under a cloth. The TLR gets the most positive attention. It seems everybody loves it, both those who know a bit about it and those who just think i's a super cool old camera. (My Yashicamat 124 is in near pristine cosmetic condition, at least from a few feet away, and with the chrome on it looks perhaps more impressive than the later G models.)

I used to run into much the same thing in the film days with people carrying expensive 35mm SLRs and sometimes several lenses who barely knew how to load film in them. In fact I had someone at a high school assembly ask me for help opening the back of their camera so they COULD load film in it. I pulled up on the rewind knob and handed it back. OTOH, when you saw someone with a quality medium format camera, old or new, they almost always knew quite a bit about what they were doing.

Digital Shooters

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