"Digital" RA-4 paper and optical exposure

jd callow · Jun 2, 2006

Bob Carnie said:
I use Fuji Crystal Archive matte , and Fuji Crystal Archive Flex material , on Dichroic Enlargers, as well with Lambda laser output device, with no problem whatsoever.

What chemestry, speed and temp -- all standard RA4?

FWIW With CA I never have unusal filter packs when doing normal negs.

Bob Carnie · Jun 2, 2006

mrcallow said:
What chemestry, speed and temp -- all standard RA4?

FWIW With CA I never have unusal filter packs when doing normal negs.

Same Chem, Same speed, and Same temp, just different exposing devices.

Fuji: FC Professional Developer 800711
Fuji: Colour Print P1R Developer Starter
Fuji: Colour Print RA Bleach Fix 822570 A & B

35.6 degree celcius
Normal speed for RA4 Paper product

Photo Engineer · Jun 2, 2006

I think that we have to differentiate between CA I and CA II product as there appears to be two different products on the market. We also have to differentiate the two processes and all possible product and process combinations if we are to find out what is what here.

So, Bob, you say CA, but is it CA I or CA II?

PE

Bob Carnie · Jun 2, 2006

PE

right now it is Fuji Crystal Archive DP

Photo Engineer · Jun 2, 2006

Bob;

As best I can tell by the article, the DP uses the old process.

PE

Samuel B · Jun 2, 2006

I am currently using Fuji CA in the lab on an analogue machine, which is actually running Kodak SM chemistry, with no problems. I don't know if it is type I or II, but the Fuji paper I have at the moment has no markings on the back which I thought was weird. It's manufactured in the Netherlands.

bob100684 · Jun 2, 2006

Photo Engineer said:
I think that we have to differentiate between CA I and CA II product as there appears to be two different products on the market. We also have to differentiate the two processes and all possible product and process combinations if we are to find out what is what here.

So, Bob, you say CA, but is it CA I or CA II?

PE

Both! My understanding is that CA type I has been replaced by CA type II

Photo Engineer · Jun 2, 2006

bob100684 said:
Both! My understanding is that CA type I has been replaced by CA type II

I understand.

What process did you use with CA I and CA II and what color balances did you use.

With documentation, we can keep track of this.

Thanks.

PE

bob100684 · Jun 3, 2006

Photo Engineer said:
I understand.

What process did you use with CA I and CA II and what color balances did you use.

With documentation, we can keep track of this.

Thanks.

PE

The frontier 340 uses proscess cp-49e. The frontier 370 uses CP-48s. Unfortunatly with my limited time running frontiers, they spat out "upkeep prints" and were measured with an onboard densitometer, there was no feedback other than "upkeep print ok" or "upkeep print NG", in which case another was run.
On the SFA cp47L(my understanding is that this IS RA-4)? It has been so long since I ran an SFA that numbers are a mystery for me, I remember the upkeep prints comming out with the exposure areas being strongly magenta instead of close to neutral grey with silght variations....upkeeps on an sfa are essentially 9(I belive) grey bars varrying from a cool grey to a slightly warm grey. Also...probably not helpful because I was switched to a frontier lab before i became more involved with proscessing other than reading control strips and troubleshooting basic problems.....ummm basically the upkeep print is run, an onboard densitometer checks each patch, and a series of numbers come up with 0 being ideal. anything deviating more than +/-3 the machine would display asterisc's which was it telling you to try again and check your chemistry, our labs policy was that if it deviated more than +/-1 re run the upkeep......numbers in the 15 to 20 range seem to ring a bell but seriously yeah... not helpful waste of post

bob100684 · Jun 3, 2006

well here it is straight from fuji's mouth http://www.photographyblog.com/inde...olor_crystal_archive_paper_type_ii_announced/

"Optimized Silver Halide Crystals for Laser Exposure - Yet Optically Compatible- Produces excellent prints from Frontier system laser printers, as well as other digital exposure systems and conventional photographic printers."

This does jog memories. Originally the Type I produced a lower DMAX with frontiers ect that fuji deemed optimal. Type 2 takes care of it.

Ed Sukach · Jun 3, 2006

Well, gang... I've done a rather thorough search through all the Fuji references here, and I can't find ANY reference to suggest that ANY Fuji Type P or C papers are incompatible with standard RA-4 processing ... including the press release from PMA 2005. Can anyone here be more specific?

I am running Fuji Crystal Archive PII with Tetenal RA-4 chemistry, and so far the results are outstanding!! - "strange" color filtration or not.

I would still prefer Ilfocolor - but Fuji DOES come close. Fuji's lot-to-lot uniformity is still a question.

Ed Sukach · Jun 3, 2006

BTW... an example from the latest - complete with gray card...

Photo Engineer · Jun 3, 2006

Ed;

I can't get more specific than give you the author names and page # in the ICIS journal, however you might try www.imaging.org and search for those authors. You will find an abstract of their presentation.

I would post it, but their web site appears to be down right now.

The Fuji presentation does not prove that the papers are incompatible, it gives data that show that the new paper requires a new process. If it causes an odd color balance, and / or degraded color, then that is incompatibility. There are many criteria to come up with such a 'call', but I'm merely reporting what I saw and heard. I have not personally tested it. You have. You report a 'strange' color filtration and good color. Then that is probably the criterion that the presenters used to 'sell' the new process chemistry.

PE

bob100684 · Jun 3, 2006

CP-49e and CP-48s are cartridge systems where working tank solutions are mixed automatically by the machine, as far as i'm aware, there is no difference between them and RA-4 other than the temperature they're run at

Photo Engineer · Jun 3, 2006

Bob;

That may be so, but that is not the data they presented.

To quote "These new technologies have been introduced into New Fujicolor Paer, "Crystal Archive Paper Type II". By combining this with the rapid process CP-49E chemicals and the Fontier 570 processor, processing time has been drastically shortened (Dry to Dry: 3'5" -> 1'22") while processing volume has been increased........." Page 259, ICIS 06 proceedings.

PE

bob100684 · Jun 3, 2006

right well CP-49e, as far as I can find the only differance is that it is at a MUCH higher temp than regular RA-4

"Digital" RA-4 paper and optical exposure

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