Digital Printing options (for film shooter)

[mporter012]

Hi!

I've printed entirely black and white in the darkroom, but finding that on my income, it's getting to be completely irrational that I continue using solely darkroom prints. So I'm beginning to explore the scanning/photoshop/digital printing world.

Can someone give me a rundown on printing digitally. I've read about giclee and quad tone (both considered gallery quality correct?), but other than that I'm in the dark. From the categories here, I can see that there is a dry process, and then a wet process (as in film)..

Thanks so much!

 

[Felinik]

PiezoPress | The Piezography Website and Blog

Their Piezography Glossy or Piezography Master Photography System, are totally the way to go, it's a bit steep in the start with printer+refill carts+ink etc. but when you see the prints you'll have no regrets.

 

[OzJohn]

I assume that you are saying that darkroom printing is getting too expensive for you. If that is the case, avoid any form of inkjet printing (and that's what Giclee is) and look into having your scanned images printed on good old, chemically processed RA4 paper. Plenty of labs offer the service and if you find one that looks after their set-up you can get very presentable black & white even though it's actually colour paper. However the prints will never be up to the look and feel of B&W silver halide paper - but neither will anything short of the very best inkjet prints made using dedicated monochrome inks on expensive papers and that's where you can spend serious money that will easily exceed what silver halide in the darkroom costs. OzJohn

 

[L Gebhardt]

In my experience you will not save money by printing with an inkjet. Even discounting the purchase of the scanner and printer, the cost is about the same if you use quality materials.

I use an Epson 3880 with factory inks. I prefer this approach over the dedicated black and white systems like Piezography since you have control over the tone of the image (without changing ink sets). You can tone the image in Lightroom or Photoshop, or use the QuadTone RIP to setup different tone mappings. Both give very good results on the 3880.

Fiber based inkjet paper is as about the same or more than Fiber based silver paper. 25 sheets of Epson Exhibition Fiber is $90, or $3.60 a sheet. Ilford MG IV 16x20 is $183.00 for 50 sheets, effectively the same price. Then the ink to print a 16x20 is about $3 more. I waste a bit more paper int he darkroom, but even with the waste and the chemicals I think it's no more expensive than the inkjet, and usually cheaper if I want to make multiple copies of the same print.

Then buying the scanner and printer will set you back about $2,000 for a pretty good setup. But to rival the enlarger for large prints you will probably need to spend more for a better scanner, unless you shoot large format film.

 

[John51]

What quality prints can be had with a B&W laser printer?

 

[OzJohn]

What quality prints can be had with a B&W laser printer?

Photocopier quality would be a fair comparison. OzJohn

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Photocopier quality would be a fair comparison. OzJohn

+1

 

[Chan Tran]

I remembered back when I did B&W printing I only had to pay for the paper which was about 50 cents an 8x10. The chemicals to develop, fix and stop bath were so cheap it's almost nothing. For B&W print if I still do it today I would still use the real paper. I don't think they are that expensive and I don't think you have to print every frame. You can scan the neg and have a good idea of what you have on the negative.

 

[RonaldFat]

Digital Printing options for film shooter

evo,

first timer here.

what would that price point have to be for it to be viable for you? i am in the digital business and really want to stay plugged in with the whole industry so any help would be greatly appreciated.

tom

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I agree that the quality of Epson 3880 prints is very high and that the cost is similar to wet printing.

 

[Alan Klein]

what about pro labs. Who does BW well?

 

[Richard Boutwell]

Alan, I realize this is a little late, but check this out here: Dead Link Removed

I have a 24-inch printer set up as dual-quadtone, a 17-inch printer set up as selenium K6 for gloss and matte printing, or a 13-inch that can be set up as a range of different customized K6 tints. The next project is setting up the 44-inch printer as K6+CYM for my variable tone system.

 

[Richard Boutwell]

Alan, I realize this is a little late, but check this out here: Dead Link Removed

I have a 24-inch printer set up as dual-quadtone, a 17-inch printer set up as selenium K6 for gloss and matte printing, or a 13-inch that can be set up as a range of different customized K6 tints. The next project is setting up the 44-inch printer as K6+CYM for my variable tone system.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Now that PHOTRIO offers the opportunity for those who were APUG-only registrants to view these threads, it seems like a good idea to chip in some thoughts on the subject of this one.

Until a few months ago, I'd never done any serious photo printing outside a darkroom. Just some small jpegs output via my wife's all-in-one. Adequate for their snapshot purpose only. I've become increasingly frustrated by the wet-printing papers still sold these days. Possibly as a result of Schoeller only offering very limited base material choices to photo manufacturers, coating evenness has declined and surface gloss of glossy versions has become, to my taste, excessive. "Matt" and "Semi-matt" darkroom papers sacrifice too much black. So, I threw in the towel and "went hybrid."

At this point, I've only been using an Epson V850 to scan 8x10 320TXP negatives, not yet climbing the learning curve of dealing with smaller originals that have shiny, Newton's rings-prone base sides. The large Tri-X negatives, with their dull base-side retouching coating, lay perfectly flat on the scanner glass and result in blissfully ring-free 115 megapixel grayscale 16-bit files.

After any required spotting and curve adjustment, I've printed them using an Epson SC P600 on quite a few different inkjet papers. Even some "luster" surfaces. The best, to my eye, has been Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Ultrasmooth. Unlike wet printing versions, this combination (the Ultrasmooth paper, downloaded Hahnemuhle profile and Ultrachrome HD inkset) has for the first time given me a wonderfully reflection-free print with deep, deep blacks. I don't have a reflection densitometer, but the blacks are visually as dense as those found on the best 'reference' wet samples available here for comparison: Ansel Adams Yosemite Special Edition prints 35+ years old. I've quit looking for alternatives. This is how I'll print from now on.

The OP approached this subject with cost being his primary concern. I've not analyzed the total expenditure per print with Photo Rag Ultrasmooth and Epson SC P600 ink cartridges compared to wet printing. Ultrasmooth is far from being an inexpensive inkjet paper. However, given how outstanding I find prints made on it are, I'd take this hybrid route even if it were more expensive than wet printing. Make fewer, better prints, if necessary, is my advice.

 

[Richard Boutwell]

Sal's point is right on. For me the main reason to work with digital black and white—whether that is from film scans or digital capture—is the total creative control over tonal values that go way beyond what I was able to do waving a wand around under a light bulb.

You can start with the consumer scans (like from the epson flatbeds) and decent pigment printer in the P600/800 range and do pretty well at home with modest print size. Then if there is something you want larger or to see printed with piezo inks, give me a call and we can do a really really good drum scan and a carbon/toned inkjet print.

 

[mshchem]

I can't justify the expense to go to non-traditional means of printing. I scan my Dad's old Kodachrome slides with a Nikon Coolscan, do very minor correction in Light Room. Those get printed at University Camera in Iowa City. I have a darkroom all ready and waiting for color or black and white.
I do all my preliminary work on Ilford RC, when I'm ready to put something on the wall I use fiber.
I use split grade printing now (thanks Darkroom Dave Butcher) that I have found to be a very powerful technique.
I despise sitting at computers.
I have nice digital cameras, I use them for action candid stuff, family and pets.
For me nothing is as satisfying as a silver gelatin print on paper.
Best Regards Mike

 

[mporter012]

Sal's point is right on. For me the main reason to work with digital black and white—whether that is from film scans or digital capture—is the total creative control over tonal values that go way beyond what I was able to do waving a wand around under a light bulb.

You can start with the consumer scans (like from the epson flatbeds) and decent pigment printer in the P600/800 range and do pretty well at home with modest print size. Then if there is something you want larger or to see printed with piezo inks, give me a call and we can do a really really good drum scan and a carbon/toned inkjet print.

That's what I'm hoping for. I'm still attempting to decide what scanner to buy, but pretty set on the P800 for the printer. B&H is running them at $895 with rebates. I guess I'm just trying to decide if it's worth it to invest in one of the B&W specific printers since I shoot 99% B&W film.