Digital camera for digital negatives

dwross2 · Feb 4, 2007

Hi All

I'll start right out with an apology if this is an old question that has been answered many times. I haven't been following this exact topic before, so who knows what I have missed.

Question: How do digital negatives from a digital camera compare to digital negs produced from scanned film? I am very happy with the negatives I make (Pictorico OHP) from 120 film and a Nikon 9000. The problem: I want to photograph in really wretched (i.e. totally cool) weather on the Oregon Coast. Salt, water, sand. Very hard on my precious, irreplaceable old friends. I have been considering a Pentax K10 for the camera-hostile shoots. If I mix those images with ones from scanned film, will they stick out like a sore thumb? (please don't tell me that they will be better. The Nikon 9000 is still on my credit card

Thanks for any words of advise.
Denise

jd callow · Feb 5, 2007

here is an example of a Digital capture; Digital neg; Pd print. I think it is outstanding...

Joe Lipka · Feb 5, 2007

I have done both in the same project. I have scanned 4x5 negatives and converted them to 8x10 digital negatives. I have made 8x10 digital negatives from my Fuji S7000. I printed them in pt/pd and showed them to experienced alt process printers. They could not distinguish between the film scanned 4x5 and digital capture prints.

DW - I have photographed on the Oregon Coast with both view cameras and digital cameras. In the rapidly changing weather. I wouldn't worry about the weather on your cameras too much. The advantage of digital is that it is so much quicker to handle.

dwross2 · Feb 5, 2007

JD and Joe,

Thanks for the encouraging comments. JD: your portrait is lovely.

Joe: I agree with you on view cameras. I've used my old Speed Graphic many times while up to my waist in surf.
http://dwrphotos.com/Portfolio8/TurningTide/Image36.htm
Just bring her home and clean her up. I'm not so sanguine about my Fuji 120 rangefinders and I can't scan 4x5 film. But, since I don't plan on making digital negatives as large as you do, I'll assume that all will be well. Now... it sounds like it's time to buck up and learn yet another new workflow. I hope there's no truth to the rumor that cramming in too much digital will make your brain explode!

tom_micklin · Feb 5, 2007

dwross said:
Now... it sounds like it's time to buck up and learn yet another new workflow. I hope there's no truth to the rumor that cramming in too much digital will make your brain explode!

Hi Denise,
If my brain has exploded from cramming it with too much digital, I haven't noticed.
I make Pictorico negs from both scanned film and digital files.
I think that once you establish your workflow with digital, you'll find that it really doesn't matter how the image was captured.
I work with RAW files and scan film from 120 to 8x10 and print about 9x12 inches for either Kallitypes or Bromoils.

Have fun,
Tom

dwross2 · Feb 5, 2007

Hi Tom:

Good to hear my brain is safe (although I'm sure I heard a circuit pop this morning!)

btw: Do you know the straight scoop on megapixels? How much is enough (and then some) for a 4x4 or 4x6 digital negative?

Denise

jd callow · Feb 5, 2007

dwross said:
Thanks for the encouraging comments. JD: your portrait is lovely.

The portrait is df cardwell's -- I'd love to claim it as my own.

dwross2 · Feb 5, 2007

jd callow said:
The portrait is df cardwell's -- I'd love to claim it as my own.

So would I. My apologies (and congratulations to df cardwell. It is a lovely portrait.

gr82bart · Feb 6, 2007

Should be no different (don't tell the folks at APUG I said that ... shhh). I use a D2X to make images, as well as my Hassey and scanned. Images taken by either camera printed out on a Lambda or at Wal-Mart look fine. So, I suspect a digital neg would be fine too.

Regards, Art.

jd callow · Feb 6, 2007

The limiting factor will be resolution. A 6-20 mega pixel digital capture is unlikely to enlarge as nicely as 80 mega pixel or higher scan of a piece of film. The two (camera mega pixel and scan size) are not interchangeable. The camera capture will often look better and be more 'enlargeable' than a scan at the same size. On the flip side you can generally up the res on the scan, whereas the camera reaches its limit much more quickly.

dwross2 · Feb 6, 2007

jd: thanks for the info. I've obviously got a lot to learn. 20 mega pixels! Ouch. Who would've thunk. I'm resisting the urge to google up such a beast to see what they cost. It's interesting, though. I spend a lot of my time reading turn-of-the (last)-century books trying to understand emulsion making. Substitute digtal vocabulary for chemistry and they might almost be the same conversations. Going around and coming around. Interesting.

dwross2 · Feb 6, 2007

gr82bart said:
Should be no different (don't tell the folks at APUG I said that ... shhh)..

Bart: Your secret is safe with me

livemoa · Feb 7, 2007

dw, if you shoot in RAW with something like a 12mpix camera then you should get files close to 20 mpix from what I understand.

I have just got a D200 and the files I get from it are around 15-18mpix in RAW.

Anyway, back to the salt mine.

tom_micklin · Feb 7, 2007

dwross said:
Hi Tom:
btw: Do you know the straight scoop on megapixels? How much is enough (and then some) for a 4x4 or 4x6 digital negative?

Denise

Denise,
I'm using a 10 megapixel Leica (the compact D-Lux 3, not the M8), shooting RAW I get a 28 Mb digital file to work with.
That's more than enough for my 12 inch by 9 inch negs.

I've made the same size negs from 8 megapixel RAW captures. I think it depends a lot on how you work and what you're looking for, but for me and my old pictorialist eyes, as long as I can get a RAW file, I don't think I'll need anything more than 10mp.
Tom

dwross2 · Feb 7, 2007

Tom:

Thank you. That's good news. I think I can swing a 10 mpix camera. I won't be making very large negatives (4 x 6 to start with) so it sounds encouraging. I share your "old pictorialist" eyes. RAW it is.

Your photograhs are lovely. They do Washington proud. I'm about due for a trip to Hoh. Looking at your website has pushed that date up. Very inspirational.

Denise

tom_micklin · Feb 7, 2007

dwross said:
Tom:

Your photograhs are lovely. They do Washington proud. I'm about due for a trip to Hoh. Looking at your website has pushed that date up. Very inspirational.

Denise

Hi Denise,
Thanks very much for the nice comments.
I could use a trip out there myself. Over the Holidays, the road into the Rain Forest was blocked from all the storms, but I'm hoping it'll be open now. I think I'll head out there in early March.
Regards,
Tom

dwross2 · Feb 8, 2007

livemoa said:
I have just got a D200 and the files I get from it are around 15-18mpix in RAW.

livemoa:

Congratulations on the new camera. It's on my short list along with the Pentax K10D. I hope that owners of each camera will post images highlighting the advantages of in-camera vs. in-lens stabilization. It's hard to separate fact from religion (not to say that there can't be overlap). After vowing to add digital to my bag of tricks, trying to tease out the straight scoop on the digital 'this vs. that' is making me go all Luddite again!

d

dwross2 · Feb 8, 2007

oops! lost the quotes. It is 'livemoa' who has a new D200. I'm still dithering.

While I'm back, though, question: can I use my Pentax 67 lenses on the K10? I can't find the answer online and B&H doesn't know. Thanks.

Denise

dwross2 · Feb 8, 2007

I just got this from Pentax, for those of you who might be interested.

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for contacting Pentax.

Based on the information you provided us in your correspondence, we believe this response will help you.

The recommended adapter to mount 67 lenses on a DSLR (such as the K10D) is called Adapter B67, Pentax product code: 37954.
(Pentax List Price does not necessarily reflect actual dealer price).

Accessories, (for US residents) may be purchased from our website at: <http://www.pentaximaging.com> <http://www.pentaximaging.com> Click on "Purchase Our Products" and "Shop Online".

Try ordering it through a reputable online company such as www.berger-bros.com, www.amazon.com, www.froogle.com, and www.adorama.com. They all carry official Pentax products. If no one has it in stock, then call us and the order will be placed for the item.

For a current listing of Pentax dealers in your area, we suggest you check out the Dealer Inquiry Map on the Pentax Home Page. Click on "Dealers" and then simply click on the two letter state code for dealers in the state you wish to check, and they will load in a few seconds. You may also research dealers by entering your ZIP code and radius of search. However, because of the vast size of our dealer network, information regarding dealer inventories is not available at Pentax Imaging Company.

If you are in need of further assistance, please respond to this email or call our technical support center at 800-877-0155.

Sincerely,
Tamara
Pentax Imaging Technical Support

Digital camera for digital negatives

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